Talk:Eddy Merckx

Calculation Error?

Why is it that under the trivia section, it says that Merckxx had a victory rate of greater than 1/3 (33%) when 1/3 of 1582 is 527 1/3 while Merckx won a total of 525 races.

Another Calculation Error?

According to the article, "Merckx began dating Claudine Acou in April 1965", and also, "On December 5, 1967 Merckx married Acou after four years of dating." April 1965 to December 1967 is not a period of four years. Neb-Maat-Re (talk) 22:35, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

Fixed. Disc Wheel (T + C) 16:59, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

Flemish or Walloon

Is he Flemish or Walloon? What's his mother tongue?

He certainly considers himself Belgian instead of outspokenly Flemish or Walloon. I'd say he is equally fluent in both, but not really fluent in either. He's not a man of words, and only thanks to 45 years of interviews, he has achieved some form of oratory talent. JH-man 19:50, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Merckx was born in Meensel-Kiezegem and spent part of his childhood in Kraainem. As both communities are considered to be part of the Flemish speaking part of the country (by law, although the suburban area of Brussels on the Flemish part of the 'language border' accomodates french speakers in their own language) Merckx is Flemish. Merckx' alleged preference for french has never been proved, but a possible explanation can be found in the fact that his parents where traders in Brussels and as such would have been more exposed to French.

Without doubt, Merckx is a symbol of Belgium, and there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth after his marriage to Claudine : the ceremony was performed in both languages but the actual vows were said in French.

Another explanation for Merckx' awkwardness and lack of oratory skills in early life may be found in the wartime events at Meensel-Kiezegem where Gaston Merckx, a known collaborator had been shot by members of the resistance. All male inhabitants were arrested and 76 of them died in concentration camps. The Merckx clan then left for the suburbs of Brussels. The stress this caused to the family is cited as a contributing factor to the ferocious style of the early years of competition. Portici 19:59, 18 October 2006 (UTC)Portici

He may have had the lives of 76 people on his conscience. Perhaps he decided to win 7 races for each dead Belgian as an act of contrition. 7 x 76 is 532. Timtak (talk) 07:35, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

The question has not been fully answered. What language did he speak with his parents? Were they French or Dutch speaking? Did he go to French or Dutch school? The article doesn't inform us at all. And with his children he speaks French, doesn't he? 195.218.15.86 01:47, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Hi, in case you are still wondering I am pretty sure he was Flemish as my mum told me she taught his wife English (and she's Flemish). But this is just a thought, I wouldn't trust it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Oblomov99 (talk • contribs) 20:18, 25 October 2020 (UTC)

Greatest Ever

Eddy Merckx is the greatest cyclist ever. Even Lance Armstrong states this himself.

More Greatest Ever

"is considered by many to be the greatest cyclist of the 20th Century" really is quite an understatement.

Out of curosity, how much beyond Lance Armstrong are his results? 66.68.106.103 05:28, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

Armstrong dominates the tour. Merxkx dominated everything.

20th vs 21st century

The above comments clearly confuse 20th & 21st century ;-)

Note: This century just began, "greatest cyclist of the 20th Century" is more valuable than

     6-7 times Tour de France winner in the early years of the 21st century.

Greatest Ever

Bestowing the title of greatest ever is not a function of wikipedia. Merckx has repeatedly stated that comparisons between him and Lance are a waste of time, the times and the races were different then. If Merckx get's an award for greatest cycler of all time then that data belongs in wikipedia. Otherwise present the actual data, and let people come to that conclusion themselves.

--63.229.127.222 16:02, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Explain to me exactly why it is that you can't compare because the 'times and races were different then'. L'Equipe in an effort to even out possible differences between contemporary racing and racing in Merckx' time concluded that only Bernard Hinault came close to Merckx' performance. As for the Tour de France, Merckx was advised by the organizing body not to participate in 1973, this when the cyclist was at the peak of his powers. After all, I never hear people say that you cannot possibly compare contemporary fighting and boxing during Mohammed Ali's career. Or is he declared 'the greatest' simply because he says he is?

Portici 22:15, 20 October 2006 (UTC) Portici

The only arguments that stand against Merckx being greatest ever are arguments that you can not pick a greatest ever. But in this case the gap is so huge that I think you can. Most Grand Tour wins. Most 5 monument wins (19 vrs. 11 for next closest). Fold in Worlds with 5 monuments and you get 22 vrs 11. Total the Grand Tours, 5 monuments and worlds wins and only Coppi and Hinault even reach the mark of having half of what Eddy does. I don't see how anyone can dispute that the top 2 tours are the Tour and Giro and that the top 2 single day races are the Worlds and Paris Roubaix. As of 1975 Merckx was tied for most wins in ALL 4 of these. Today he is tied for most wins for 2 and second most wins for the other 2. Only 3 other riders have even won all 4 races once.

```` Keith99

More about the gratest ever: Most days in yellow jersey (96), most monument wins, most tour de France stage victories, only rider who ever who could combine polka dot jersey, yellow jersey and green jersey in Tour De France (I think two times), most Milan-sanremo wins (seven!), ... . One of the only riders who won the three ground tours (tour de France, Giro, Vuelta), most grand tour wins (11!), ... I could still continue a little bit like that but let also not forget the way he won. He won with enourmous time gaps (various >100km attacks). He has been awarded the combatinveness award two times in de TDF (normal TDF winners just get some lead and then defend it), all year round (not specializing in one race, and doing some other races to prepare). He won track races, road races and also one cyclocross. He also had the world time record. It botters me a little bit that in all these comparisions everybody focusses too much on the TDF. If you would make the article bigger reocrds in cycling with more categories (most times won Ronde Van Vlaanderen, most times won Paris Roubaix, most races won, most days in this and this jersey, ... He would end in top three with in most of the categories. Merckx just won everything. Merckx only compares with Mohamed Ali, Pele, ... . I am really sure he was the gratest ever, please just check all the other articles about the cycling races, not just TDF 84.195.182.246 (talk) 16:59, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

Talk page

Just a note that this talk page is to discuss the article as an encyclopedic entry, not for discussing Eddy Merckx as a person/athlete. Julius.kusuma 15:08, 24 July 2005 (UTC)

Need cleanup

The introduction part of the article is becoming bloated as contributors add information to it without seeing how it can be integrated to later parts of the article. Would be great if somebody can collate all the information and re-sectionalize the article. Thanks. Julius.kusuma 12:15, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

reverted back to my version of dec 19th

Surely mistakes need to be corrected in Wikipedia, and duplicate sections should be removed? I don't want this to become an edit war at all, but when changes are reverted, an explanation would be nice? Looking forward to it...

81.188.79.116 19:25, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Cleanup attempt

Well, I had a go at a cleanup operation for this article about my fellow countryman. Most information is still there, just rearranged and duplicates removed. Added some more significant info. I didn't systematically check stats or results though, just mostly kept the whole bunch. I hope it looks better now... 81.188.79.35 23:40, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the awesome cleanup work and the addition of the information! I am toning down the wording a little bit, but otherwise it looks great! Thanks again, and hup Belge! Or hup kasseinfretters, depending on where you live! Julius.kusuma 01:47, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

Removed Armstrong-reference in first paragraph

is considered by many to be the greatest cyclist of all-time (except for Lance Armstrong),

This really was an unnecessary addition, and Lance is mentioned later in the article. The original sentence could be read as "some consider Merckx the greatest of all time, some consider somebody else the greatest of all time". Adding Armstrong here doesn't change that.

I will probably add a small (balanced) paragraph about "greatest of all time or not" one of these days212.153.56.254 09:50, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Pronunciation

How is his last name correctly pronounced?

           Like in "sex" => "mex" => "merx"

           I wish I knew phonetics...--JH-man 20:05, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Magazine cover photo

The text of the copyright tag includes the following words:

Note: It is not acceptable to use images with this tag in the article of the person or persons depicted on the cover, unless used directly in connection with the publication of this image.

In other words, using a mag showing Merckx to illustrate this article isn't justifiable unless the publication of said mag is the point being discussed, not its subject. 86.132.138.151 03:04, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Fact check

According to this interview with Merckx:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/riders/2005/interviews/?id=eddy_merckx05

Merckx "only" had 445 professional wins. I think the total of 525x professional wins isn't accurate. If you disagree please provide sources.

CN: You had an incredible career, with 445 wins.

EM: As a professional, yes. I had about 100 victories as an amateur. Also, on the track, 17 six days and various championships.

--Meekrob 00:14, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Some Changes back

well, you (Meekrob) deleted quite some stuff I added, but I can live with most of it. However, a couple of things:

-I reintroduced the 'namesake' remark; this Eddy Merckx really isn't the 3 cussion champion. His namesake is billiards champion. This was completely lost after you removed the sentence. I reworded it a bit.

-Sorry! --Meekrob 18:49, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

- I reintroduced the white jersey part. You say it is not provable, but it is: the only reason why he didn't win the (current definition of) white jersey was that it didn't exist yet. If someone wins the Tour, AND he is under 25, he automatically wins the white jersey. You also can't use the argument that others might have tried harder to win the white jersey, and beaten Merckx, if it had existed, because obviously they had to win the yellow jersey in order to win the white one.

-I still think this is a bad idea, although not as bad as speculating that Ali might would have beat Tyson. It's not good to put "would have's" in wikipedia. Still if nobody else has a problem with this then I don't either. --Meekrob 18:49, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

- what I didn't reintroduce yet, but argue to include in some form, is some of the objective arguments (the Daniel Manzarek listings) to place Merckx (with that much distance) on top of the list of best cyclists ever. I think this is relevant to get an idea what he achieved, also in relation to Lance Armstrong. Maybe not under a heading best cyclist of all times, but still it deserves some place?

- I don't really think you can compare these two, they are from different eras. It's fine to speculate on fansites and forums, but unless you can put them in the same competition then you don't really get a definitive answer. Both Armstrong and Merckx dominated during the times in which they competed, what does comparing them achieve? I think it's better to stick to recorded facts. Let Merckx's achievements and records speak for themselves. I do think there is a place in the article to discuss the differences between racing in Merckx's time and "modern" times, as long as it isn't a disguised attempt to prove that Merckx is better than Armstrong. --Meekrob 18:49, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

- Well, I originally wrote a more elaborate version of the 'best cyclist ever?' section which included these 'differences', but later editors removed those parts. Check out the January 25, 2006 history page. Maybe we could agree to get it back in (at least partially)?JH-man 18:56, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

hour record

This is unfortunately no longer correct:

Hour record: 49.432 km, set in 1972.

Chris Boardman and Ondrej Sosenka have since beaten this record...

If I am mistaken and this is just all the records he set at that time, then please delete this. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.175.84.17 (talk) 23:35, 3 March 2007 (UTC).

I added the clarification that the section is for records that Merckx set during his career, and pointed out that the Hour record has subsequently been broken. Cheer, Doctormatt 23:51, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Merckx cover.jpg

Image:Merckx cover.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 22:19, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Merckx cover.jpg

Image:Merckx cover.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 05:15, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Merckx cover.jpg

Image:Merckx cover.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 04:09, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

THE best or one of the best, being and being regarded

I restored the previous wording because there's nothing wrong with it IMO.

Merckx's stats are so overwhelmingly dominant (check out a ranking like http://www.kolarstwo-szosowe.gda.pl/Ranking_2005.html ) that it would not even be outright unreasonable to simply declare him the greatest of all time.

The only reason why that would not be a good idea after all, is that one would be comparing different eras with different opponents, different pressures, different scope of the sport etc. That's why the words "regarded as" are being used instead of the bolder "is".

fact: Merckx is one of the greatest and most successful cyclists of all time.

reputation: Merckx is regarded as the greatest and most successful cyclists of all time. JH-man (talk) 09:04, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Good article/A-class article

There is a lot of information on Eddy Merckx to be found. Eddy Merckx is a legend. If any page in the WikiProject Cycling can be made a featured article, it is the Eddy Merckx article. Currently, it's only B-class. Can we start try to get it to be a Good Article, or an A-class article? Currently the wikiproject has no A-class articles... --EdgeNavidad (talk) 07:27, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

I stumbled upon a journal article that ranks Merckx second best cyclist in the TdF after Hinault, although by a very small margin.

• Chercye, Laurens (2006). "Robust Rankings of Multidimensional Performances - An Application to Tour de France Racing Cyclists" (PDF). Journal of Sports Economics. 7 (4): 359–373. doi:10.1177/1527002505275092. Retrieved 2008-04-03. {{cite journal}}: Unknown parameter |coauthors= ignored (|author= suggested) (help); line feed character in |title= at position 19 (help)

Unfortunately, I currently don't have the inspiration to put it in the article...--EdgeNavidad (talk) 12:44, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

I have some doubt about the seriousness of a method that reaches a result where a one time winner as Joop Zoetemelk is ranked before Miguel Indurain. --Lebob-BE (talk) 14:13, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

First of all, Zoetemelk is at the same rank as Indurain, both net dominating 483 cyclists. Secondly, the method justifies it by also compairing second places, of which Zoetemelk has six, compaired to Indurain zero.

Is that fair? I don't know. Indurain is a bigger legend, because when it comes to legend, the winner takes all. I know the TdF-winners of the last 10 years by heart, but I really would have to look up who finished second. But being legendary is not the same as being successful. The authors of this paper made a mathematical model that would give a list of most successful cyclists in the Tour de France, and asked sports journalists for criteria. Based on that information, the mathematical model ranked Indurain and Zoetemelk at the same place. To me, this is a fair and unbiased method, fairer than tweaking the model such that the final list is the list you expect (i.e. Merckx on top, Indurain before Zoetemelk). --EdgeNavidad (talk) 15:26, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Check Daniel Marszalek's list (on his wiki article, or here for example). His list gives Zoetemelk more points than Indurain, and on the special Stage Riders list, Indurain and Zoetemelk are ranked 5th and 6th - so they seem comparable in "successfulness".--EdgeNavidad (talk) 12:05, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

My conclusion is that you will never find a solution that can range the cycling champion in a full scientific way. The Belgian/Dutch approach for instance completely forgets some criterions like the number of attemps. do you know that Zoetemelk has run 16 TdF to win only one and get 6 second places? Compare this with Armstrong, Merckx, Hinault and some other and you will realise that the efficiency criterion is not taken into account at all. The ranking of Marzsalek is also quite amazing when it tanks Zoetmelk before Fausto Coppi. And with all due respect to Sean Kelly I have really problems in considering him as the third best all times rider. --Lebob-BE (talk) 16:52, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

It doesn't matter what we think. If it's in a reliable third party source (and especially if cited by others), it can be included. Severo<sup>TC</sup> 20:33, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Requested move

For the discussion on the move request, please see Talk:Eddy Merckx (disambiguation).--Kotniski (talk) 06:11, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

1973 Tour

I've removed the entry for the 1973 Tour because Merckx didn't ride. I could write something about his racing that year but not under the TdeF heading. And since we haven't featured any other year, why 1973? A conundrum. Still, it's explained under 1972 that he didn't ride, and why. Les woodland (talk) 05:37, 19 December 2008 (UTC)les woodland

Doesn't the same objection hold for the 1976 Tour de France? --EdgeNavidad (talk) 15:37, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Nicknames

I've always thought of a nickname as a monnicker which someone might use to your face or to others on seeing you go by. I can imagine one rider pointing out Merckx and saying "The Cannibal's here, then." But I can't imagine anyone saying, "Did you sleep well, Einstein-on-Wheels?" References to riders as the Giant or Einstein aren't nicknames, surely, but references of praise. That was why I deleted all but "Cannibal" a while back. People know who The Cannibal was. It was a widespread alternative name and therefore pretty much a nickname. But "Einstein-on-Wheels"? No, I don't think so. Do you? Les woodland (talk) 07:40, 29 December 2008 (UTC)les woodland

No. An even greater crime for nicknames and catch-phrases - they are not catchy. Done. Gone. Autodidactyl (talk) 08:28, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Too many quotes

Am I the only one who thinks the latest big rework of this article introduced way too many quotes? I appreciate the effort that was put in, but Eddy was a bicycle racer, not a philosopher or great intellectual. All the "XXX said:" repetitions are bad for the overal style as well. The information not necessarilly needs to be removed, but some of the information in the quotes could be worked into the article differently. This would also improve the layout IMO. JH-man (talk) 10:48, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

I also really appreciate the effort put into this article. But there are too many quotes on this page, it decreases the readability. The quotes are a good source for some information; I agree that this information should be worked into this article, with the source of the quote as reference. This could improve the article even more. --EdgeNavidad (talk) 15:26, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

There are only 43! (that's 1 better than than the answer to the universe)

— Autodidactyl, 2009.

I agree, the information is great and not otherwise accessible to the likes of me, but much of the info should be woven into the text, and many of the quotes demoted to notes or references. I will have a stab soon. Autodidactyl (talk) 15:49, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Pro Teams

I beleive he also rode for the Falcon Cycles team, but not sure what years - possibly 1976, 1977? Anyone have further info? I lived adjacent to the Elswick Hopper factory in Barton-Upon-Humber, and my wife worked there in the 1970s. I seem to remember they had a cycle range named after him too.--86.130.30.122 (talk) 23:05, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

External links support what's in the infobox. Severo<sup>TC</sup> 09:19, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

Francs to euros

The article reads "Merckx was earning 125,000 Belgian francs a year when he won the championship (approx €2,000 at 2008 values)." - I wonder if this is a correct conversion as the euro was introduced at 1/40.3399 against the franc, which would mean that BEF 125,000 were worth €3100 in 2001 already, and that's not even considering inflation since 1967. --Hooiwind (talk) 13:19, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

1964 Olympic road race

Is this him? 1:47 minutes in the film [1]?.Tushyk (talk) 09:40, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

Drugs use

The Wikipedia article "list of doping cases in cycling" currently provides some information on Merckx. Why does this article exclude this information? It cannot be because of ignorance. AnnaComnemna (talk) 17:20, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

I agree it should be mentioned, perhaps a note should be added in the lead, just like the Armstrong article?Dingowasher (talk) 20:45, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Eddy Merckx/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Relentlessly (talk · contribs) 11:03, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

I'll review this. Relentlessly (talk) 11:03, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose, no copyvios, spelling and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

Specific points:

• "In each year following the 1969 season until 1974, Merckx managed to complete a Grand Tour double each season, with his final double also coinciding with winning the men's road race at the UCI Road World Championships to make him the first rider to accomplish cycling's Triple Crown." This is a long and complex sentence and you've got a lot of duplication in the first part. I suggest "In each year from 1970 to 1974, Merckx managed to complete a Grand Tour double/ His final double also coincided with winning the men's road race at the UCI Road World Championships to make him the first rider to accomplish cycling's Triple Crown."

Tweaked your sentence, but Fixed. Disc Wheel (T + C) 21:15, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

• "Merckx even broke the hour record in October 1972, extending the record by almost 800 meters." Why "even"?

Fixed. Disc Wheel (T + C) 22:52, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

• "at the age of four Merckx claimed he knew he wanted to be a cyclist" I think you mean "Merckx claimed he knew he wanted to be a cyclist at the age of four", otherwise it sounds like he was doing the claiming when he was four.

Fixed. Disc Wheel (T + C) 22:52, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

• I'm not sure how to do it, but I think the reference to encyclopedia.com ought to mention that the work is the "Encyclopedia of World Biography", per the reference examples on the page itself.

Fixed. Disc Wheel (T + C) 21:24, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

• "At the event, Merckx was approached by Bic team manager Raphaël Géminiani at the world championships" A few things with this sentence. First, duplication. Second, the false title grammatical construct. Third, most sentences in the article have Merckx as the subject. This seems like an ideal opportunity to have a refreshing contrast! How about "Raphaël Géminiani, the manager of the Bic cycling team, approached Merckx at the event and offered him 2,500 francs a month to join the team the following season."

Fixed. Disc Wheel (T + C) 22:52, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

• "Three other riders reached the line with Merckx, of which Merckx got the best and won the race." I can see what you're trying to do here. Perhaps "Three other riders reached the line with him; Merckx, however, beat them in the sprint."

Fixed. Disc Wheel (T + C) 22:52, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

• You could mention that the 1966 MSR is his first Monument?

Fixed. Disc Wheel (T + C) 21:15, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

• "he raced the Tour of Flanders and the Paris-Roubaix, the former of which he crashed in and the latter of which he had a punctured tire." This doesn't quite make grammatical sense. You mean "he raced the Tour of Flanders and the Paris-Roubaix; in the former he crashed and in the latter he had a punctured tire."

Fixed. Disc Wheel (T + C) 22:52, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

• For a non-cycling audience, you could clarify that these are cobbled classics.

Fixed. Disc Wheel (T + C) 21:15, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

• "Simpson solidified his overall victory" Do you mean "Simpson secured his overall victory" or "Simpson extended his overall lead"?

Fixed. Disc Wheel (T + C) 22:52, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

• "The race came down to a sprint finish that Merckx managed to win" A sprint of those four riders or of a larger group?

Cleared it up. Disc Wheel (T + C) 22:59, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

• "twelfth and fourteenth stage" Plural "stages".

Fixed. Disc Wheel (T + C) 22:52, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

• "The course consisted of ten laps of a circuit, of which Motta attacked on the first one. Merckx joined Motta along with five more riders. He won the sprint ahead of Jan Janssen to win the day." I'm not quite following the narrative of this. First, some grammar: "The course consisted of ten laps of a circuit. Motta attacked on the first lap and was joined by Merckx and five other riders." Second, the narrative point: did that group reach the finish together, or were EM and Jan Janssen alone at the finish?

Fixed. Disc Wheel (T + C) 22:59, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

• I'm very confused by the 1969 classics section. You say that Merckx won his first major victory at the Tour of Flanders and that the days afterwards saw lots of wins: surely MSR and Paris-Nice come before Flanders?

My fault, fixed. Disc Wheel (T + C) 23:26, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

• Several times you use a hyphen to separate race names, e.g. Paris-Nice, where you need an en-dash, e.g. Paris–Nice.

Got all I think. Disc Wheel (T + C) 23:26, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

• "snow plagued" – not really encyclopedic language.

Fixed. Disc Wheel (T + C) 21:57, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

• In 1970, you should link 1970 Paris–Roubaix, not the general article, as that has already been mentioned.

Fixed. Disc Wheel (T + C) 21:57, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

• " weary of returning to the race" – what does this mean? Do you mean "unwilling"?

Fixed. Disc Wheel (T + C) 21:57, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

• Did nothing significant happen after the Tour in 1970?

The Fotheringham book didn't go into anything after that. But once school lets up a bit I'm going to check out the Friebe book and go through it to back up points from the Fotheringham book and possibly add more info. Disc Wheel (T + C) 22:59, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

• " three split stages" – from the sounds of it this means one stage split into three, as the second stage is mentioned a couple of paragraphs later.

There were three stages held that day, 1a, 1b, and 1c - which are mentioned in the following sentence. Several of the days of racing were broken up 1970 Tour de France. It was much more common, I don't know really when they stopped that. From my work with the Giros it seems like the 90s.

With that, would you like me to alter it? I was thinking maybe a semi-colon instead of a new sentence so that it would be more obvious that the 1b and 1c were a part of the three split stages. Disc Wheel (T + C) 22:59, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

• " sped into the finish" Not encyclopedic language again.

Fixed. Disc Wheel (T + C) 21:57, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

• Each time he wins the World Championships, it feels like it's passed over quite quickly: you don't actually say "He became world champion" or mention the rainbow jersey.

Fixed. Disc Wheel (T + C) 22:59, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

• The 1972 Giro di Lombardia presumably meant that Merckx had won all five Monuments? Worth mentioning?

Fixed, but 71 was his first lombardia victory. Disc Wheel (T + C) 21:24, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

• "a vertebrae" should be "a vertebra".

Fixed. Disc Wheel (T + C) 21:57, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

• "despite his sprocket shifted him to the wrong gear" Doesn't quite make sense and I'm not sure how to rephrase it.

Fixed. Disc Wheel (T + C) 21:15, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

• "regaining the lead in the process" Not clear when he lost it.

Fixed. Disc Wheel (T + C) 21:57, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

• Link Criterium

Fixed. Disc Wheel (T + C) 21:57, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

• Who are "contenders" in the 1974 Tour?

Added. Disc Wheel (T + C) 23:26, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

• "held off the peloton to reach the finish in Orléans almost a minute and a half before the peloton" Can this be rephrased to reduce the duplication of peloton?

Fixed. Disc Wheel (T + C) 22:59, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

• Was there a reason for the continued poor performance in 1976 beyond the classics season?

I believe Fotheringham talked of his decline in performance as a whole just due to the intensity of his schedule in the years prior. Any thoughts? Disc Wheel (T + C) 22:59, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

• " then ride several smaller races for appearances" What does that mean?

He participated in smaller races just for extra money and to draw publicity for the event. This is basically the equivalent of the post-Tour criteriums nowadays. Disc Wheel (T + C) 22:59, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

• "He flirted with sponsoring a youth developmental team with CGER Bank, a team that featured his son Axel." Did the team come into being at all? If not, "He explored sponsoring a youth development team with CGER Bank; the team would have featured his son Axel."

Cleared this up. Disc Wheel (T + C) 22:59, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

• Ref 35 is dead.

It works for me? It's just a Fotherinham book one. Disc Wheel (T + C) 21:57, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

I don't know where I got 35 from. It was number 210 (and 209 as well, actually) and it's now fixed. Relentlessly (talk) 22:41, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

Haha Disc Wheel (T + C) 21:15, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

• I'm not convinced about the use of File:Derny.jpg, which feels quite tangential, and File:Ventoux Flamme Rouge (14829387042).jpg, which is oddly snow-covered. Perhaps File:Mont Ventoux Gipfel von Westen.jpg instead?

I think the derny is necessary, because I honestly had no idea what one looked like when I was reading the book. Disc Wheel (T + C) 21:57, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

Other points:

• If you're thinking of taking this to FA, you'll need to sort out your references so they appear in numerical order each time. I'm not so bothered for GA, but FA reviewers will be.

I don't think I have enough time to take this to FA. Fixed all that I spotted though. Disc Wheel (T + C) 21:57, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

• Again, thinking of FA, some sections of the article read a little bit like a summary of significant results, rather than a narrative. You could compare Tom Simpson to see how this is done quite well. What were the tensions? What was he trying to achieve? For example, in the 1971 season, was there pressure going into LBL because of the failures in RvV and P-R? The Tour that year sounds like a much more difficult experience – any commentary on that?
• The large team sections could be broken up into season sections as well. You do this implicitly, but sections would make it more readable, especially the looooong Molteni section.

Done. Disc Wheel (T + C) 22:59, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

• You don't convert distances into imperial measurements at any point in the article. Is there a particular reason for this? I don't think it's necessarily a problem per MOS:CONVERSIONS.

No real reason at all, just happened that it turned out that way. Disc Wheel (T + C) 22:59, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

Overall this looks like a good article, with a certain amount of work to do on it. I did a little copyediting as I was reviewing The biggest improvement you could make (not necessary for GA, though, I think) would be to add some extra narrative structure (perhaps as little as subheadings) to help the reader understand the context of the races. But the tweaks above will be enough for GA. On hold . Relentlessly (talk) 09:08, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

@Relentlessly:Sorry for the sporadic editing, school has really taken up all the free time I had during the summer. But Now I believe I have addressed all the issues and replied to some comments you made. Disc Wheel (T + C) 23:26, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

Looks good to me: very good work. I've enjoyed reading it, though I can't say I've warmed to Merckx! Promoted. Relentlessly (talk) 12:34, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

intro para

The current intro para is terrible. The introduction para should explain why Merckx is important, not give minor details like town of birth and sports played as a child! Further, it should articulate more information about the subject than one fact taken out of context -- why is it impressive that he's won five tours? Has anyone else won five? Has he won anything other than the Tour?

I would strongly suggest that the intro should be rewritten to give a short and clear summary of Merckx's palmares and the extent to which these achievements represent a huge and striking dominance of the sport in his era and his claim to be the greatest ever.

I think the Don Bradman intro para is a good example of this:

"Sir Donald George "Don" Bradman, AC (27 August 1908 – 25 February 2001), often referred to as "The Don", was an Australian cricketer, widely acknowledged as the greatest batsman of all time.[2] Bradman's career Test batting average of 99.94 is often cited as the greatest achievement by any sportsman in any major sport.[3]"

A similar para here might be:

"Édouard Louis Joseph, baron Merckx (Dutch pronunciation: [ˈmɛrks]) (born 17 June 1945), better known as Eddy Merckx, is a Belgian former professional road and track bicycle racer who is widely seen as the greatest and most successful rider in the history of cycling. His unparalleled palmarès include a peerless eleven Grand Tours (five Tours of France, five Tours of Italy, and a Tour of Spain), all five Monuments, three World Road Race Championships, the Hour Record, every major one-day race apart from Paris-Tours, and extensive victories on the track."

It would be more appropriate to put details like his place of birth, early sports, and first win etc in a subsequent para dealing with his early life. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.56.3.99 (talk) 23:55, 12 February 2017 (UTC)

Hi, I have placed this note a week ago following my edit being reverted and have not seen any response from the Wikipedian who reverted my edit. I think etiquette is that some response is in order, no?

47.72.2.140 (talk) 00:21, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

They may not have seen your post here. If you want to get the attention of a particular Wikipedian, it's a good idea to post on their talk page and let them know that you've posted here. You can find the name of the user and a link to their talk page on the article's history page. --David Edgar (talk) 01:05, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

You do have some good points here, though I would tone down the praise somewhat in order to provide a more neutral point of view. I would also draw your attention to MOS:OPENPARAGRAPH, which does support some of what you say. --David Edgar (talk) 01:24, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

Thanks, I will have a look at that page. The extent of the praise is mostly just taken from other parts of the existing article, but it could certainly be toned down -- although many would say that anything other than adulation fails to give the Cannibal his due... 47.72.2.140 (talk) 23:22, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

Hi, again I have this problem! My understanding is that reverting edits with out trying to seek consensus is deprecated, no? I am happy to work collaboratively but this is hard if other users only want to protect their patch. Who do I talk to about this breach of Wiki etiquette? I am finding this frustrating and disrespectful. 118.93.126.234 (talk) 06:47, 23 May 2017 (UTC)

I agree with the push to revise the first paragraph. I agree the first para should give more information as to his accomplishments. His childhood and early career seems better suited for the second paragraph instead of the first. CUA 27 (talk) 09:39, 1 August 2017 (UTC)

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Gretzky Brady Jordan.... Merckx

I went looking for a source which will back up the claim no one who understands cycling would deny that Merckx would be the Jordan Gretzky Brady of his sport but all I can find is forum discussions where this analogy is made several times..... Forums aren't reference citation sources so is there any other way to cite this being as not many American sports reporters have made this exact comparison.... At least none that pop up on google search? Raleigh80Z90Faema69 (talk) 03:22, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

Dear Raleigh80Z90Faema69,
"... All articles must strive for verifiable accuracy, citing reliable, authoritative sources, especially when the topic is controversial or is about a living person. Editors' personal experiences, interpretations, or opinions do not belong on Wikipedia. ..." Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Five_pillars

Da Vinci Nanjing (talk) 15:53, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

Yes of this I am aware.... And as I mentioned this statement about Merckx is mentioned in about 1000 blogs and forums but I can't find an American news article about it because no American sports journalists have written articles comparing Merckx to Jordan, Brady or Gretzky, even though every single human being who has even the slightest knowledge of this sport on even the most minimal scale knows that it is a certainty that the one cyclist to represent his sport as the Brady, Jordan, Gretzky greatest of all time it would be Eddy Merckx. Besides as I also stated I only included it to give any potential new American fans a realistic idea as to who Eddy Merckx is to the sport of cycling, which is a bit foolishly optimistic on my part as no Americans are coming to this sport in large numbers until another Greg LeMond comes along and that is about as likely as a Belgian rider winning the Tour de France Raleigh80Z90Faema69 (talk) 16:54, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

This comparison just seems to be something more of to explain Merckx casually to people you know in person perhaps to show his magnitude and is not encyclopedic in nature. The article clearly paints a picture that he was regarded as the most dominant rider to race. Disc Wheel (T + C) 04:33, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

Tre Cime di Lavaredo

Hi, it's a bit silly to show a picture of the Tre Cime mountains, as if the road goes up there, rather than ending as it does about 600 vertical metres lower! I know cyclists refer to cols (passes) as peaks but to suggest "rode solo to the stage finish atop the Tre Cime di Lavaredo (pictured)", when the picture doesn't show the road is a bit much. If I say I climbed to the top of something, I don't mean I got to the car park at the bottom of it. Eddie was good but I don't think he scaled hundreds of metres of vertical rock with his bike held between his teeth. A photo of the road or just change the text to "rode solo to the stage finish below the Tre Cime di Lavaredo (pictured)" — Preceding unsigned comment added by Oblomov99 (talk • contribs) 21:04, 25 October 2020 (UTC)