Talk:Gepids

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This article is full of errors and needs to be rewritten. For example, the Gepids are not recorded in the 1st. century AD. There is also no historical record of them ever having lived at or near the Baltic Sea cost. Further, there is no historical record that suggests that they have ever lived in or near Scandinavia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.5.181.42 (talk) 08:26, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

please explain your grievances on talk

I do not belive that the gepids sotes are only in Romania. It was a suggestion in order lo let, others to continue the article.I expect that the list will be expanded.Also I've the same question you have: Was Romania the only country which the Gepids passed?CristianChirita 17:28, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

I believe the people who want to expand the article will either start new sections or will change the title appropriately. It is not that difficult for a wikipedian to figure out how. As for anons, I've never seen anything but vandalism from them. Your heading was inaccurate and misleading, for it led us to believe that the section included all the Gepidan sites, while it actually included the sites in Romania only, thus misleading a stray reader (like myself) into believing that the Gepids settled in Romania only. --Ghirla ^-трёп- 17:56, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

You take to hard things here, the misleading was not intentional, only that I've no informations from other locations, I agree with yours statements, but in this form it seems like a romanian article, which does not serve anyone, better,maybe is to delete the list. I consider that an open list will encourage others to add some sites on the list. The are some blank pages regarding the period between V-XIII, in every nation in Estern Europe, and there are many who prefere to have blank pages in history books:) But in the end discussing about one form of the article or others has no fun, but again don't take everything so hard, you know hell is paved with good intentions, and I assure you, my intentions are good. BTW my intentions was to provoke someone to publish some images with Gepids treasures (Like those kept in Viena), and artefacts. I've fail, you spotted me :) Thank again for your help with the chronicle CristianChirita

inaccurate

clearly, this article is too brief. but its main problem is the fact that it is full of inaccuracies, the most glaring being the fact that it shows an unabashed bias towards the Gepids, recasting them as poor victims of the Huns, faithful allies of the Byzantine Empire, and finally powerless against the Goths and Byzantines, as if the two had colluded together and betrayed them. all three of these characterizations are in fact counterfactual. if the author of this site would please consult a RECENT book on the early Byzantine Middle Ages, preferably in English (as it may help your woefully inadequate language skills), this person would surely come to understand how inaccurate this article is.

if i didn't know better, i'd think this was ripped straight from 1930's German propaganda.Flibjib8 13:38, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps our poster would suggest the book that is most in line with his thinking? --Wetman 22:46, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

...ah, then perhaps there is none. I wonder too about Gepidia, which has been contributed by User:PANNONIA. A note where Gepidia occurs would reassure us that this isn't just a modern invention. --Wetman —Preceding signed but undated comment was added at 00:25, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

See Jordanes' Getica, XII.74, available in English here. The Latin says Haec Gotia, quam Daciam appellavere maiores, quae nunc ut diximus Gepidia dicitur. Srnec 05:15, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Excellent!--Wetman 05:37, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

For every, who doesn't speak Hungarian

The map of Gepidia taken from some hungarian source is brilliant, still... could someone translate all the comments on it to English, so we would be able to go through all the subtleties it shows more carefully? IML-NT 17:22, 12 October 2007 (UTC) IML-NT

TWhat comments are you talking, about? Apahida - name of a commune in Transylvania - is the only Hungarian(and Romanian) word on the map, the rest is in Latin or English ... --fz22 20:22, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

I meant the map from http://www.historyonmaps.com/ColourSamples/cbig/Gepidak.jpg. It's a link below the article, where 3 maps of gepids are listed, connected with the web sources IML-NT 11:50, 14 October 2007 (UTC) IML-NT

The map of Gepidia

The map is well done, except the positioning of Apahida.

The little circle is about the place of the town Campia Turzii, and Apahida is a little bit North, on Somes river. See the map on Romanian discoution. --Morosanul (talk) 15:14, 19 November 2008 (UTC) http://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imagine:Apahida-CpTurzii.jpg

What is known about the language of the Gepids?

Their name doesn't sound particularly "Germanic" (or Hungarian or Romanian). It could come from any of those language groups, I suppose - but does anyone actually know? Can provide citation? I think we're dealing with yet another of the "barbarian" tribes described by Romans - who lumped a bunch of people together. I'd like to see the scholarship that got this particular group to be Germanic rather than say, Keltic or Baltic or Rus or whatever else was around in that area (Slavic, Romania, Ungar, etc).--LeValley 01:31, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

The Gepids are generally considered part of the Goths on the ground of Jordanes, their arianism and arcaelogical evidence. The ultimate source regarding them is considered to be Die Gepiden by Walter Pohl.Aldux (talk) 12:54, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

Procopius, History of the Wars, Book III, The Vandalic War:

"There were many Gothic nations in earlier times, just as also at the present, but the greatest and most important of all are the Goths, Vandals, Visigoths, and Gepaedes... All these, while they are distinguished from one another by their names, as has been said, do not differ in anything else at all. For they all have white bodies and fair hair, and are tall and handsome to look upon, and they use the same laws and practise a common religion. For they are all of the Arian faith, and have one language called Gothic..." 85.226.192.31 (talk) 21:50, 29 November 2013 (UTC)

Goffart, who is already cited in the present article, has an excellent chapter in the same work, Barbarian Tides, titled "None of them were Germans." While he is saying that not even the tribes (Visigoths, Angles, Frisians, Suevi) who spoke Germanic languages recognized that that they had anything in common with one another or acknowledged any common ties between them, he also pointedly doubts that the Gepids should even be grouped with the other Gothic groups. He points that Jordannes jumped to this conclusion based on their geographical position during his time and their Arian faith. I would recommend that this article acknowledge some of the modern skepticism about the origins of the Gepids in the introductory section and then again when discussing language. In fact, we don't have much reliable information and there is good reason to doubt the sources that we do have. The Gepids are a mystery in many respects and honesty requires us to admit that. Ftjrwrites (talk) 02:29, 10 December 2017 (UTC)

Would you quote the text from Goffart which suggests that the Gepids did not speak a Germanic language? Borsoka (talk) 02:49, 10 December 2017 (UTC)

File:Carphatianbasin gepidia.png Nominated for Deletion

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Kingdom of the Gepids

I have taken some parts of the text and put into page of Kingdom of the Gepids, because we have to distinguish between Gepids and country of the Gepids. Fakirbakir (talk) 14:44, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

Germanic burials

I did read that there was Germanic continuity (Gepids) toward the 'age of Avars' in Transdanubia. See:[1] Is there any presumably Germanic cemetery in the late Avar age in Transdanubia? Fakirbakir (talk) 08:42, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

Hey. The "Gepidean" and indeeed other "Germanic" as well as "late Roman" burials continued into the early Avar period, and Byzantine sources cite existence of disticnt Gepid villages (when Romans raided Avaria) and Gepidean units at Siege of Constantinople in 626. However, any distinct Gepidean materal ends by the mid 7th century, as during the mid - late Avar period there is a manifest homogenization of Avar material culture. Slovenski Volk (talk) 23:38, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

Historicity

It cannot be shown that the Gepids existed prior to the 4th century. The migration history as given by Jordanes can and should be summarized here, and it is silly to keep tagging it as "unreliable". Just state that Jordanes is unreliable (this is undisputed) and then give his account regardless.

I think it is undisputed they existed by the late 4th century or so, and their 5th to 6th century history is well established.

Their name is etymologized by Jordanes as "sluggards", because they migrated later than the rest of the Goths. This is of course unreliable along with the rest of the migration story.

Their name has ineed been associated with that of Gapt (Latham 1857 if there must be a citation, but I doubt Latham was either the first or the large to make this trivial observation). Yes, Gapt is a variant of Gaut, this just means that Gepid is a variant of Goth. They seem to have been a group of Goths, perhaps indeed separated at an early time and undergoing a dialectal variation of the superficial phonetic kind of wt>pt. I would assume they became really separate from the Goths when the latter split into the large groups of Ostrogoths vs. Visigoths in the 4th century. The Gepids would then just be those "sluggard" Goths who joined neither of these groups and stayed behind in the Balkans. --dab (𒁳) 10:54, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

Gapt

I agree with the above as Gepid is what others called them rather than what they called themselves. All sources I have examined likewise state this and that Jordanes was unreliable. Where people try to guess the real name of the Gepids, they tend to go back to the god Gaut / Gapt from which the Goths / Geats derived their names. It is likely that the name was similar to Gepanta so that linguistically, it became corrupted. Gepanta and Gapt are etymologically similar enough that it seems they draw a connection between the two. However, no one has definitively staked their reputation on it even though most agree said peoples would not have given themselves such an insulting name. It is worth adding this as a possibility which could inspire others to investigate the possibility further but not to state it as if it were a proven fact. Armorbeast (talk) 18:19, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

Map

The private Map creation of Slovenski People created a undocumented position of Slavs but real it is AVARS!!!! Avars is archeological position of this expansion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2003:46:D46:AA1E:DC48:8850:550F:66DD (talk) 23:59, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

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Archaeological sites

The current section "Archeological sites" talks about Vlada, but the only thing in general that I found (so far) about that has been mention of the site reports for the remidiation "Autostrada Borș-Brașov, tronson 2B, km 42+200–45+000. Cod. Sit: 59407.01–59407.03" for 2005, 2006 and 2007 by Stanciu, I., et al., as mentioned, for example, in Gogâltan, Florin; Apai, Emese; Kelemen, Imola (2008). "Leben mit den Toten: Ein Ältereisenzeitliches Grab von Vlaha, Kr. Cluj". In Sîrbu, V.; Vaida, D. L. (eds.). Funerary Practices of the Bronze and Iron Ages in Central and South-Eastern Europe. Proceedings of the 9th International Colloquium of Funerary Archaeology (in German). Cluj-Napoca, Romania: Editura Mega. pp. 109–123.. I am tempted to delete it and work instead from the review of such Gepid sites done by Dobos, Alpár (2011). "The Reihengräberfelder in Transylvania after 100 Years of Archaeological Research". Acta Archaeologica. Carpathica. 46: 171–206.. See also, Dobos (2014) "Translyvania in the Gepidic period". What do you all think?  --Bejnar (talk) 22:41, 18 August 2018 (UTC)

• I note that the Vlada archaeological site information was first added by CristianChirita in September 2005 (modified in October 2005), but unfortunately CristianChirita has not edited since September 2017, so we aare unlikely to be able to ask the editor who added it. --Bejnar (talk) 22:58, 18 August 2018 (UTC) it seem it was a misspelling it is VLAHA code for the site RAN59407.01 http://ran.cimec.ro/sel.asp?codran=59407.01 CristianChirita (talk)

I have added a citation [73] for the tombs in Cluj County, Romania. Bridei921302 (talk) 17:19, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

Supposed name in Old English

The following text:

An Old English form of their name is recorded in Widsith, as Gefþ-, alongside the name of the Wends.

References

is sourced to an article from 1857. This is incredibly Old. In addition, the connection seems phonetically questionable, as p does not regularly change to f in Old English. I've moved the text here to give someone an opportunity to find a better (and more recent!) source, otherwise it shouldn't be in the article.--Ermenrich (talk) 22:15, 26 November 2019 (UTC)

Found something better.Ermenrich (talk)

Physical appearance section

Is this section necessary? It has one primary source - I assume there's no discussion in secondary literature. It's also completely uninformative.--Ermenrich (talk) 13:55, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

I have also been thinking about this. The same quote is also made in another section. For my part, the only reason I have not deleted it as "undue", is because of a vague idea that it might one day become the beginning of a new section one day about Roman descriptions. ...However, while much can be said about Procopius and his thing about the Herules, with the Gepids there is not much beyond Jordanes saying they were "slow" (which is explained quite early in the article). They were not much distinguished from other Scythian/Gothic/Getic/Dacian peoples, and so we can probably just best make sure we have good linking to articles which discuss that. (Would be great if the Goths article was better of course, but everyone seems to be scared to work on it.)--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 14:10, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

Skull deformation

"The center was in present-day Hungary, where more than 200 Hun and Germanic (mainly Gepidic) deformed skulls became known, predominantly dating from the 5th to 6th century."( Artificially deformed crania from the Hun-Germanic Period (5th–6th century ad) in northeastern Hungary: historical andmorphological analysis Mónika Molnár, M.S.,1 István János, Ph.D.,2 László Szűcs, M.S.,3 and László Szathmáry, C.Sc)János, Ph.D.,2 László Szűcs, M.S.,3 and László Szathmáry, C.Sc)

SKELETAL REMAINS OF THE GEPID PERIOD IN THE GREAT HUNGARIAN PLAIN. LITERATURE REVIEW https://www.academia.edu/44908736/Skeletal_Remains_of_the_Gepid_Period_in_the_Great_Hungarian_Plain_Literature_Review https://thesebonesofmine.wordpress.com/2016/10/17/guest-post-an-introduction-to-artificial-cranial-deformation-from-the-great-migration-period-in-europe-by-maja-miljevic/2-viminacium-reconstruction-of-gepid-woman-after-микић-1993-picture-2/ An Introduction to Artificial Cranial Deformation from the Great Migration Period in Europe by Maja Miljević In the Old World, Huns also are known to have practised similar cranial deformation, as were the people known as the Alans. In Late Antiquity (AD 300–600), the East Germanic tribes who were ruled by the Huns, the Gepids, Ostrogoths, Heruli, Rugii, and Burgundians adopted this custom. Among the Lombards, the Burgundians and the Thuringians, this custom seems to have comprised women only. In western Germanic tribes, artificial skull deformations rarely have been found. https://www.thearchaeologist.org/blog/what-do-we-call-artificial-cranial-deformation-in-archaeology-and-why-did-ancient-civilizations-practised-it 6th century, male, age 50, Gepids tribe, found in Vinkovci, Croatia (1st skull)) https://nellacro.wordpress.com/2020/02/17/elongated-skulls-found-in-croatia/ 8th century female, Gepids tribe, age 30 found in Lika, Croatia (second skull)CristianChirita (talk) 06:52, 7 September 2022 (UTC)