Talk:Toulouse

I suggest someone put the coordinates of Toulouse and a Link to the Maps like most of the Cities and towns in wikipedia. Johnny!~

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When a city name is given in Occità, as here, I assume that I should deduce that it is a region speaking Occità or some descendant thereof ? (I'm entirely unfamiliar with Toulouse, so I wouldn't know that otherwise.)

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Occitan is spoken in Toulouse and the Midi region generally, but only as a secondary language.

What's the general opinion on the SUMMARY and DETAIL sections of Toulouse's history? Personally I think it's a bit unnecessary, and would like to fold the SUMMARY text into an expanded DETAIL section. Thoughts? Nightsky

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I wrote the Antiquity section of the article. Realizing it was quite long, I thought it would be best to offer a summarized presentation of Toulouse's history for people who do not have the time or desire to read all the nitty-gritties of that history. I will soon add an Early Middle Age section, and a Late Middle Age to Present section that will be as detailed as the Antiquity section. Perhaps the best would be to do like what the folks did in the New York City article. They left only a summarized version of the history of the city, and put a link to a History of New York article. That way we wouldn't be overloading the Toulouse article. But I suggest we wait for the Early Middle Age section and the Late Middle Age to Present section to be completed before we create a specific History of Toulouse article. I will finish them and add them as soon as my time allows. Hardouin 11:05, 2 Jun 2004 (UTC)

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Sounds good. Thanks for the marvelously informative "Antiquity" section! Nightsky 15:52, Jun 2, 2004 (UTC)

I have finally been able to continue the history of Toulouse, I have been as far as year 1000, but I still need to cover from year 1000 to 2004. It is incredibly time consuming, as the history of the city is very complex, and local history is always badly documented (unlike national history), so it is hard to find good and reliable sources. Anyway, I have created a new article titled History of Toulouse, as I had previously suggested, and I sent everything there, leaving only a brief historical sketch in the main Toulouse article. In the article about the history of Toulouse I have reorganized the chapters into a more detailed lay-out. As soon as time allows I will finish the chapter about the County of Toulouse, and write the chapters regarding the period after 1271, which should be easier since Toulouse was then only a provincial city of France, and no more an independent place subject to the complexity of the European political chessboard. I hope everybody enjoy. Hardouin 22:20, 27 Jul 2004 (UTC)

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Not to deny Baudis' achievements, but it seems to me that much of the "Local Politics" content would fit better in the "History of Toulouse" page. What do you all think? Nightsky 04:21, Aug 26, 2004 (UTC)

The History of Toulouse article is far from being finished. Currently it stops at the year 1000. Events after 1000 are just briefly discussed, and it will need considerable rewriting, so let's wait. Whatsoever, I am not sure it is a good idea to bury the Baudis years in the depth of the History article... After all what's most interesting to the understanding of current political events is what happened in the recent years, and that information should be readily accessible in the Toulouse article itself. Last but not least, is that recent an history really History? Hardouin 12:43, 27 Aug 2004 (UTC)

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At the "Colleges and universities" section of the article it has a link to Arsenal. I was wondering whether that was meant to be there. If there is a university called Arsenal, should the link not be to Arsenal_(univeristy) or something similar? --Dimitri 09:35, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Corrected that. L'arsenal is just the name of the largest building of Université Toulouse I. Hardouin 00:29, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

/tuˈluzɐ/ vs /tuˈluzo/

This is for Hardouin who said:

Have you checked the international phonetic alphabet table? /ɐ/ is pronounced like a very open o, and it is the right IPA letter for Occitan, so please don't change it again.

I am not sure if you're a native Occitan speaker or what. But I have rechecked my sources (i.e., the chapter in Occitan in The Romance Languages) as well as having listened to a recorded Occitan lesson (the Lengadocian variety of which Toulouse is a part). I came to the conlcuslion that you're confused about the vowel.

First, I speak Tagalog as a native language. We have /ɐ/ in our language as an allophone. This is clearly different from Occitan, which is an /o/.

Second, in post-tonic positions in Occitan there can only be four vowel allophones, one of which is [o].

Third, in old-fashioned Occitan writing, Tolosa is writen Toulouso.

I hope I made myself clear. Thanks for your understanding --Chris S. 21:42, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

I am not confused about the wovel, thank you. The final a is pronounced /ɐ/. You can check that at [[1]]. On the French webpage, follow the link "L'Occitan", then "La phonétique de l'Occitan", then "Le système phonétique des voyelles et associations de voyelles". Also, it is better to leave slashes and not use brackets, in order to allow for slightly different pronunciations among Occitan speakers. On Wikipedia we almost never user brackets for IPA. Hardouin 16:43, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

I did some more researching. There are several sources which contradict your source. Hence, I made the necessary changes. The websites I cite are below for your perusal. There is also a book I have called The Romance Languages published by Routledge; it has a chapter on Occitan used /o/ in its transcriptions. Plus as I mentioned, in Tagalog we have [ɐ] as an allophone of /a/ and it's different from what I hear in Occitan.

http://www.orbilat.com/Languages/Occitan/Grammar/Occitan-Pronunciation.html

http://membres.lycos.fr/simorre/oc/ensenhoc.htm

http://www.quercy.net/oc/graphie.html

http://www.gasconha.com/reglas_grafia_occitana.php

http://www.omniglot.com/writing/occitan.htm

http://loucaramentrant03.free.fr/calandreta/occitan3/ (listen to #2)

--Chris S. 20:12, 17 September 2005 (UTC)

Bias?

While reading the article I felt that the authors had nothing but good things to say about the mayor, glorifying him and making many many generalisations about the city, it's developement and his achievements. Also, could the history section be more of a survey of the entire History article rather than just a lot about recent history. AllPeopleUnite 13:59, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

New Infobox Template proposition

I'd like to bring your attention to a new - or other - version of the "Large French Cities" infobox presently at use in a few French cities pages. The present version is much too large, partly because it consecrates too much space to information having little importance to French demography and an only distant and indirect relevence to the city itself. Instead I propose to follow a less cumbersome model closer to that used by the New York City article - you can view the new version in the Paris talk page here. Please view and comment. THEPROMENADER 22:19, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

As a result of some discussion over the past weeks, there is an updated template available for perusal in its 'published ' form (filled with data) here - all comments welcome. -- THEPROMENADER 07:24, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism Alert

I've just noticed this article is flooded by garbage information from IP 12.152.102.212. It seems he has already been temporarily blocked, but by looking at his history, I think this should be permanent.

Please note all his editing in this page should probably be removed and re-editted, since it is scattered all over the place. Also, it would be wise to check out his history and go over all the pages he encountered.

Peace. Guycarmeli 17:08, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

disambig

Hôtel de Ville in Toulouse needs disambig. Randomblue (talk) 11:38, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Henri de Toulouse-Lautrec

Is Henri de Toulouse-Lautrec commonly called just "Toulouse"? If not, there is no need for the dab note at the top of the page that I can think of. Srnec (talk) 23:14, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

I never heard or read Toulouse-Lautrec called "Toulouse". Indeed, this note deserves an edit. Aleske (talk) 00:38, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

History of Toulouse

As one of the most important centres historically in Southern France, one unsourced and unhelpful sentence seems barely adequate to describe the pre-20th century history of Toulouse. I have added the source used on the corresponding French WP page, which is a FA on the French wikipedia. The article on the History of Toulouse seems to be a translation of the corresponding French pages but with no sources provided at all. This section deserves to be expanded by translating the French page, while checking and adding sources. There must also be good sources in the English language, although these are less likely to be so good on local detail. The French WP pages have maps, illuminated manuscripts, etc. It seems a pity not to bring this page to life by replacing the introductory sentence by a proper condensed and informative history. My Michelin guide of Languedoc, Roussillon, Tarne, Gorges contains more than 3 pages of history, although I don't think it is the best source. Thanks, Mathsci (talk) 13:59, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Birthplace of Carlos Gardel in Uruguay not in France

The Toulouse page says that Carlos Gardel (the famous tango-song writer) was born in Toulouse. This finds no confirmation anywhere. Carlos Gardel was born in Uruguay from an "illegitimate" relation of the father. The father's wife was French, and so maybe she was from Toulouse. But Carlos Gardel was not his son, nor was he born in France at all. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.49.115.118 (talk) 16:18, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

There is a Mistake

Toulouse is the Third student city after Paris and Lyon —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.55.52.3 (talk) 18:50, 27 August 2009 (UTC) I forgot to add the source, I've added it on the article for no misunderstanding.

Notre-Dame de la Daurade

Please link Notre-Dame de la Daurade from this article. Per Honor et Gloria ✍ 08:02, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

 Done — M-le-mot-dit (T) 10:34, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

ESC Toulouse

Shouldn´t this grande école be added? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 163.117.8.55 (talk) 13:22, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Fine. CapnPrep (talk) 20:53, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

?????????????????????????????????????? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.89.251.49 (talk) 22:51, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

History Section

Where's the "History" section?Ryoung122 23:10, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

It is too long for a section, there is a special article History of Toulouse. Maybe some lines in the main article would be a good idea, but I am not at ease for that work in English. Traumrune (talk) 21:58, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

External links modified

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Copyright problem removed

Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: http://www.world-guides.com/europe/france/midi-pyrenees/toulouse/toulouse_history.html. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.)

For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, and, if allowed under fair use, may copy sentences and phrases, provided they are included in quotation marks and referenced properly. The material may also be rewritten, providing it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Therefore, such paraphrased portions must provide their source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. IamNotU (talk) 01:02, 15 September 2019 (UTC)

With this edit: [2], I removed the remaining text from an unsourced "History" section added on 10 July 2013, which had replaced the existing section in this edit: [3], which is clearly copied from http://www.world-guides.com/europe/france/midi-pyrenees/toulouse/toulouse_history.html. Although archive.org only has archives of that page after the material was added to the article, there are several factors that prove it was copied from that page to Wikipedia, rather than vice-versa:

1. The edit was followed six minutes later with this edit: [4], which changed the word "here" to "there". If the text was copied from Wikipedia to the world-guides.com web page, it would have the word "there", but it's "here".
2. www.world-guides.com appears to be a reasonably legitimate company, and seems unlikely to have copied material from Wikipedia and posted heavy copyright notices on it. This isn't conclusive, but it seems more likely that they wrote it themselves, though see below.
3. The IP address, 60.231.92.206, has an obvious pattern of copyright violations, copypasting large amounts of text to "History" sections. See for example their edit on the same day to Winton, Queensland: [5], taken from this page published years earlier, and their edit a few days later to Doonan, Queensland, etc. See also these related dynamic IPs used around the same date, with the same patterns and multiple copyright violations: 60.228.88.169, 1.120.150.75, 121.222.190.130, and 124.186.78.177. The person behind these IPs is undoubtedly the same as now-blocked JohnLickor372 (talk · contribs), and hundreds of other IP sockpuppets that have made thousands of disruptive edits to "History" sections, especially of Queensland-related articles. These include a large number of copyright violations. In my experience cleaning this up, the user has a poor command of English, and is incapable of writing the text in question.
4. The text appears to be written largely based on the previous text found in the section. Though heavily modified, the concepts and sentences are arranged in a similar order and structure. The previous text was also an unsourced copyright violation added the previous day by the same user from another IP: [6], found on this page at least twelve years earlier. Although this might suggest that the user had then re-written the text in their own words, it's far more likely, given the points above, that www.world-guides.com wrote their version based on that older text. Furthermore, this user has a habit of returning to articles and replacing one copypasted text with another, as they did again in this article a week later: [7], probably copypasted from this page or a similar page (it's actually a version of this Wikipedia article from 2004).

--IamNotU (talk) 02:00, 15 September 2019 (UTC)

Humid subtropical climate?

Humid subtropical climates, don´t have any dry months during the summer (not even one), if anything it could have dry months during the winter. Toulouse has a climatological dry month during the summer, therefore it shouldn´t be considered humid subtropical proper, but closer to Mediterranean. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.94.41.130 (talk) 19:02, 24 February 2020 (UTC)

It does have a slight dry summer month but the difference between it and the wettest month is not large enough to make it a Mediterranean climate. Going by the Köppen climate classification formula for data taken at Toulouse-Blagnac:

• Wettest month is May 74.0 mm (2.91 in) which is more during the high sun period. Dec to April averages around 42 to 70 mm (1.7 to 2.8 in)
• Driest month is July 37.7 mm (1.48 in).

To formally be classified as a Mediterranean climate, precipitation in the dry season has to be less than 40.0 mm (1.57 in) in the summer months AND the amount of precipitation in the driest month has to less than 1/3 of the amount of that in the wettest month (see this nature paper, table 2). For example, if the driest month is 29 mm in July and the wettest month is December with 290 mm, that is Mediterranean climate (assume a classic Mediterranean climate pattern). On the other hand if the driest month is 30 mm in July but the wettest month is December with only 80 mm, then because the amount of precipitation in the driest month (30 mm) is more than 1/3 of the amount in the wettest month (80 mm) it is not strictly Mediterranean under Köppen climate classification. A good example is Yalta or Sochi. Both have a drier summer but not enough to make it Mediterranean.

Using their criteria:

• Is precipitation in the driest month (summer) less than 40.0 mm (1.57 in)? Yes. July precipitation of 37.7 mm (1.48 in) meets this criteria
• Is the amount of precipitation in the driest month less than 1/3 of the amount of that in the wettest month? No. Comparing the values for the wettest versus the driest month. July's precipitation is roughly slightly more than 1/2 the amount of that the wettest month in May. Therefore, because of this, it cannot be classified as Mediterranean. It is humid subtropical and the article explains this nicely. Ssbbplayer (talk) 04:54, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

Southern French Gothic

Hello, I am providing some details and sources regarding the section of the article related to Southern French Gothic, which was removed on March 3, 2024, due to "unsourced content based on weasel words." I hope to persuade that this motif and the removal should be reconsidered.

Firstly, I will add a source from an art historian's publication that specifies the birth of the style, its evolution, and its replacement in the cathedral of Toulouse by a Gothic architecture from northern France after Toulouse's attachment to the French Crown. The publication clearly demonstrates that all of this occurred in the 13th century, justifying the content of the paragraph in question in the Wikipedia article. I will add this source to the references of the article. For those who read French, here is a link to the scanned publication: [8]https://www.toulouse-brique.com/divers/VMF%202011%20-%20Le%20gothique%20toulousain.pdf

Then, regarding justifying the information that the cathedral's vaults were likely the widest vaults in Western Europe upon completion, the source comes from a display within the cathedral itself. I don't believe this can serve as a referenced source (?), but here is a link to a photo of this explanation: [9]https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Un-monument-fondateur-du-gothique-meridional.jpg. The relevant information is in the penultimate paragraph and states the following: "The nave of Saint-Etienne Cathedral [...] exhibits, for the first time, the characteristics of Gothic art as developed in the Southern regions of France: it is a large, single-span structure supported by powerful buttresses, fostering the dissemination of preaching. The simplicity of this architecture, marked by extensive wall surfaces, is offset by the magnitude of its gigantic vaults, likely the widest in Western Europe upon completion."

It's important to note that during this time, advancements in Gothic architecture were progressing rapidly. It's likely that these vaults didn't remain the widest for very long. Nevertheless, this highlights the ambitious nature of the construction when it was undertaken.

I am available to discuss all of this if necessary. Best regards. Frédéric Neupont (talk) 10:57, 3 March 2024 (UTC)