Talk:Nathaniel Branden

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Nathaniel Branden article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1

Biography: Science and Academia

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	This article is supported by the science and academia work group.

Psychology Start‑class

	Psychology portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Psychology, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Psychology on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PsychologyWikipedia:WikiProject PsychologyTemplate:WikiProject Psychologypsychology articles
Start	This article has been given a rating which conflicts with the project-independent quality rating in the banner shell. Please resolve this conflict if possible.
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

Canada: Ontario Low‑importance

	Canada portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Canada, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Canada on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.CanadaWikipedia:WikiProject CanadaTemplate:WikiProject CanadaCanada-related articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	Ontario portal This article is supported by WikiProject Ontario.

Objectivism (inactive)

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Objectivism, a project which is currently considered to be inactive.ObjectivismWikipedia:WikiProject ObjectivismTemplate:WikiProject ObjectivismObjectivism articles

Politics: Libertarianism

	Politics portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Politics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of politics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PoliticsWikipedia:WikiProject PoliticsTemplate:WikiProject Politicspolitics articles
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.
	Libertarianism portal This article is supported by WikiProject Libertarianism (assessed as Mid-importance).

Archives

Archive 1

Condensed lead

I’ve gone ahead and condensed the lead so that it reads smoother and better orients the reader to the broad contours of the article’s content. I’ve retained what I’d say are the essential elements of Branden’s story: that he is known for his work in the psychology of self esteem, that he used to be an associate and romantic partner of Ayn Rand, that his relationship with Rand ended badly in 1968, and that after that he went on to develop his theory and mode of therapy more independently of Rand’s influence. I’ve eliminated the passage about humanism; the link to “self esteem in humanistic psychology” led simply to the article about “self esteem”; also, while it certainly makes sense to consider Branden humanistic, in the context of the psychology and psychotherapy fields, “humanism” is a category that Branden is not conventionally associated with. (I’m not even sure he has an interpreter who has placed him squarely in that category. In my own opinion, he has as much in the way of a psychodynamic orientation, and even a cognitive behavioral orientation (broadly speaking), as he does of a humanistic orientation: he is, in other words, an integrative or eclectic psychologist and it is perhaps for this reason he is never considered to fit squarely in any of conventional psychology/psychotherapy orientations.) I’ve also eliminated a couple narrow details of the Rand/Branden split from this section, namely 1. where Rand published her denunciation, and 2. the issue of Atlas Shrugged’s dedication page. And, I’ve removed the material about the affair from this section. It’s certainly an important part of Branden’s personal history, but in the context of his overall life and work, I’m just not sure it’s significant enough that it should be highlighted here. It seems a little more appropriate to me to explain the details in the body of the article, at least because it’s significant to the context of the Rand/Branden split. But I’ve had a hard time integrating it into the lead without it seeming like a splash of sensationalism in an otherwise sensible introduction. It just seems unnecessary, I guess. Anyone have any contrary thoughts there? Finally, I’ve removed the mention of Branden’s “biocentric” term, given that he abandoned it long ago, and I’ve taken out the “neither Freudian nor behaviorist” passage, which didn’t really explain much, as well as the quote of Branden dumping on all psychologists preceding him (calling them unscientific), which also doesn’t explain much. I do think it would be worthwhile to have something that does explain, in essence, Branden’s “biocentric” approach, but I’ll have to leave that for a future addition. For now, merely having the term “biocentric” in there doesn’t help readers understand what Branden is really about, so I’m leaving it at identifying him simply as focused on self esteem. Andrewws (talk) 05:12, 2 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I forgot to mention a couple other minor details: I changed “student” to “associate,” since Branden was as much a collaborator with Rand as he was a student of her; and I changed “novelist” (describing Rand) to “novelist-philosopher,” a better descriptor in general and in the context of this article in particular. Andrewws (talk) 05:12, 2 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Early life and education: improving the focus

I’ve made an adjustment to this section: instead of the content about each of Branden’s sisters and his cousin being part of the “Collective” (a term that hasn’t even been introduced before this point, and is not explained here), I’ve put in content regarding Branden’s telling high school career. As he tells it in his memoir, he got failing grades his first year of high school due to skipping school in favor of the library; after this he convinced his mother to send him to an accelerated school, where he says he then did well. I think this rounds out this section of the article and keeps it focused. I do think this section should also mention Branden’s reading the Fountainhead at age 14, and say a word about what that meant to him, but I’ll have to leave that for another day. As always I welcome comments and criticisms. Andrewws (talk) 05:12, 2 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I should also add, I’ve removed the bulky material about California Graduate Institute’s accreditation status. I see this was subject of a long discussion some years ago. My opinion is not passionate, but I would propose that few readers have the context to understand what difference accreditation makes, and that those few who do either would not consider it significant, or, if they do consider it significant, they would also be the types who’d be inclined to simply research California Graduate Institute (by clicking on the link, right there), and could then learn of its erstwhile unaccredited status there. In any event, the way it has been leaves the typical reader out of the equation; the bulk is pretty clearly the result of a behind-the-scenes political-type compromise, and not of considering the typical reader’s needs and interests. If anyone is still passionately opposed to simply saying Branden got a Ph.D. from a certain school, I’d at least suggest confining the information to a parenthetical - “the (then-unaccredited) California Graduate Institute.” Andrewws (talk) 05:12, 2 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"Role in Objectivist movement": economizing title

I've changed this section title to simply "Objectivist movement." Nothing is actually lost this way; in the context of an article about Nathaniel Branden, clearly this section is about his role in the movement; "Role in" simply isn't necessary. Andrewws (talk) 05:29, 30 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Expanded passage on six pillars by adding definitions of each pillar

Branden's treatment of the "six pillars" is a significant enough aspect of his work that a brief explanation/definition of each pillar is in order. I've added such in the "Psychology of self-esteem" section. Andrewws (talk) 05:48, 30 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Blumenthal Branden

For those of us who don't know a lot about Branden, it would be interesting to know when and why he changed his name from Blumenthal. Can anyone shed any light on this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Brooklyn Eagle (talk • contribs) 21:16, 22 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Why? Because Blumenthal is an obviously ethnic name in that it pertains to a specific religious group. Branden is not obviously ethnic.96.235.138.179 (talk) 02:04, 16 September 2017 (UTC)Arnold Ziffel[reply]

I read it was because “Branden” contains “Rand” and he wanted to mark himself as a disciple of hers. FiredanceThroughTheNight (talk) 22:08, 4 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Nathaniel Branden. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120106060148/http://www.nathanielbranden.com/ayn/ayn03.html to http://nathanielbranden.com/ayn/ayn03.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 02:36, 27 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified (February 2018)

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 4 external links on Nathaniel Branden. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 06:32, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Jewish ancestry?

His surname at birth was Blumenthal which is usually (but not 100% always) associated with Ashkenazi Jews. If he did, it's not mentioned anywhere in the article. 2601:8C:4581:1150:6C16:9F6E:D9B4:797D (talk) 01:13, 10 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

His parents were Russian Jewish immigrants. It doesn't happen to be mentioned in the article, but could be added with an appropriate citation. --RL0919 (talk) 20:11, 10 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:

Ayn and FRank at Branden's Wedding.jpg

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 09:52, 24 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Why the photo of Rockefeller Center?

The connection of the statue at Rockefeller Center to Branden escapes me. Why should a purely decorative motif appear in a Wikipedia article? Mdmi (talk) 23:59, 14 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]