Talk:Ted Williams

seeking consensus on religion and Ted Williams

Let's see if we can seek consensus on the reference to atheism.

Can we agree on the following points? What else should be added to the conversation?

-- The question of whether or not he was an atheist is notable. It deserves a mention here, no more than a paragraph.

-- Biographers refer to Williams as an atheist. Bradlee, for example, refers to him as "nominally an atheist." What do the various sources say?

-- Williams was described by biographers as not being a member of any religion, and having an uncomfortable or distant relationship with organized religion, perhaps stirred by his mother's religious work at all hours. What do the various sources say?

-- He had no funeral or religious celebration, by choice of his children. (It has been suggested without evidence that his children made this choice for their own reasons. Is there evidence or only suspicion?)

-- Williams referred to God at some points in interviews, and in his biography (written with others). What do the various sources say?

-- Teammates refer to Williams as an atheist. Pesky is often cited. What's the best source for this? What do other teammates say?

-- It's impossible to know the mind of any person. We don't know who is an atheist, and who is a believer. But we can know what they said or did. What did Williams say and do in relation to God and religion?

Perhaps a fair summary wouild be: Williams was not a member of any religion or congregation. He had no funeral or religious service. Biographers described him as an atheist. He did refer to God in some interviews.

24.184.21.30 (talk) 10:30, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

Does not matter what others said. The man himself said he wasn't. Get over it. Two of his kids are con artists and his oldest daughter tried to tell everyone. Even took them to court. Regardless, WILLIAMS HIMSELF said he wasn't an atheist and that he believed in God. Just because he got mad at God a few times does not make him an atheist. His quotes are now referenced and proven. Much like Al Stump with Ty Cobb, the truth isn't always what biographers claim.

Also, Pesky supposedly said it but there is only one mention from a third party. Sorry. MerryPranksters (talk) 04:38, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

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hey i have a question why was ted william called thumper because i am looking for a nickname and i am wearing his number and look up to him as a baseball player so i was just wondering why he was called that? if anyone can help email me at (Redacted)— Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.169.97.218 (talk) 22:27, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

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California Birth Records have his first name as Theodore, not Teddy. The 1920 and 1930 census records for San Diego list him as Theodore. Questors 23:36, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

Actually, look at the birth certificate as reproduced in the book THE KID: TED WILLIAMS IN SAN DIEGO, page 224. One can see there are questions about what his original given name was.

The original birth certificate has "Teddy Samuel Williams". At some time "Teddy" was crossed out and replace with "Theodore". But Ted's mother called him "Teddy".— Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.30.116.116 (talk) 02:22, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

question

Question regarding the genealogy of Ted's mother. Will the person who posted the very interesting material on the Spanish roots of the Venzor and Hernandex family please be in touch? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Joyous! (talk • contribs) 02:28, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

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I've heard Williams walked about 20% of the time; can somebody confirm? Trekphiler 03:41, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

Looks like it's slightly over 20%. 2021 Base on Balls divided by some 9730 plate appearances. No Guru 04:58, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

Failed Good Article Status

This article was failed because of insufficient references. joturner 01:12, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

I can add a useful reference book on Ted Williams: The Ted Williams Reader, a series of articles, essays and profiles on or about Ted Williams. I also think more should be said about Williams's complex relation with the fans, and will try to compose a few sentences about that, complete with a reference.

Andrew Szanton 4/06

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The image doesn't work. -Fsotrain09 05:41, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Pilot experience

Shouldn't there be a great deal more information on his military career/experience? Being a fighter pilot in two significant wars warrants more attention. RedSix 17 May 2006

• Agreed! It would be great if some more focus on this aspect were done. --Don Sowell 21:08, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

I removed a line (from the "relationship with media and fans" section) both for lack of citation and for the existence of a separate section on Mr. Williams' military career. Louiebb (talk) 00:05, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

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no mention of ted's brother,or his nephews,and the birth dates of all his children and who he had them with.williams also had some mexican heritage and no mention of his father.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Themetalgod (talk • contribs) 03:44, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

In response to trekphiler, Bill Nolin articulates Ted's roots extensivly in his book, "The Kid" from San Deigo. for your info, Ted had no "Mexican hearatage", as you refer..His Basque parent's andecendents immigrated from the Navarre reigon of Spain early in the 1800's, living in Chihuahua, Mexico, and moving to the US in the late 1800's. At that time in Mexico, Ted's family, both Venzor and Hernandez, did not integrate with Indians, Mulatos, Mestizos, Latinos, Hispanics, Germans or the French, although, later, some mixed with Creollos (people born in Spain, i.e., Spanish) but they remained mostly Basque.

Also; Ted's brother Danny, died in 1960 of leukemia in San Diego at the age of 39. He had 3 sons. Ted and his first wife, Doris Soule, had a daughter, Bobby-Jo. John-Henry and Claudia were born with Ted's third wife Delores Wettach. Although Ted's grandparents came from Mexico, Ted's family claims their origins as Spanish Basque; though he lovingly refered to them as "the Mexicans". Lineimage 03:28, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

"His Basque parent's andecendents immigrated from the Navarre reigon of Spain early in the 1800's, living in Chihuahua, Mexico, and moving to the US in the late 1800's. At that time in Mexico, Ted's family, both Venzor and Hernandez, did not integrate with Indians, Mulatos, Mestizos, Latinos.."

That statement made absolutely no sense, how can a family live in a country for generations without marrying outside of their Basque family? I don't know which book you were reading but I have the book The Kid: Tedd Williams in San Diego by Bill Nowlin and he mentions Williams' Hispanic heritage throughout. "Ted's mother May Venzer Williams, originally from El Paso, gave Ted his Mexican blood." (page 217) It also includes interviews with other members of Williams' family including the Corderos(Ted's cousins) "My forefather was a corporal. They came from Spain. They arrived in Mexico city. He married in Baja to a Mexican woman, and they came up here to California. His son married an Indian here, the princess of the Chumash Indian tribe. He was there when they were building the missions. That was in the 1780s or 1790s." (Teresa Corder p. 277) So there family was very much a part of the Mexican American and Hispanic communities. It also includes a few pictures of Williams posing with the Venzors, Herreras and Corderos (most appear to be of Mestizo descent).SamChambers (talk) 11:10, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm a family member, and have spoken with many of the remaining Venzors. Though the family came from Mexico, they consider themselves Spanish-Basque, not Mexican in heritage. If you saw them, you'll see many are quite tall, not shorter like many Mexicans. From history that I've read, the Basque were mariners and arrived in the earliest days of the Spanish in Mexico.

The Chumash were a coastal California tribe, that union occured after the family's immigration to the US. A few branches of the family settled in Southern CA, primarly around Santa Barbara. Ted's mother's Salvation Army service placed her in San Diego but the family remained very close knit.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.231.131.149 (talk) 18:40, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

• • " If you saw them, you'll see many are quite tall, not shorter like many Mexicans." LOL. Racism at its finest! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.176.116.148 (talk) 08:27, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

Racism? I'm part of the family, as Mexican as any of them! They are typically tall, not short. We're proud of our Mexican roots. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.141.242.162 (talk) 23:00, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

Alcor Controversy

Alcor may not deny having taken him without a *contract*, but that's not the same thing as doing it against his wishes. To the best of my knowledge, it's fairly clear that Williams got exactly what he wanted. Others may not agree with his wishes, but the article makes it sound like two of his children secretly planned this thing out without his knowledge or consent. I'm not asking you to believe their side of the argument, but I do think it should be presented. 69.21.93.150 13:05, 9 August 2006 (UTC) Konrad

I think the current edit makes clear that all the children (two for cryonics, one against) were doing what they believed their father wanted. 71.160.248.79 18:55, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

No this is not a good article. Like nearly all baseball biographies I read on here, there are almost no sources and most the the material is personal opinion, even if you personal opinions are based on fact. Mglovesfun 21:09, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

The edit to the Post-death section by NoGuru today does not improve the article, IMHO. With so much text deleted, the remaining text does not make sense. What dispute, what pact, what cryonics decision? Sourcing is a problem, but gutting the section cannot be the solution.71.160.248.79 21:59, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

I am going to remove all of the unsourced material from this section again. It reads like a soap-opera and has very little in the way of sourcing. Please only re-add if you properly source each item. From Wikipedia:Verifiability-- The burden of evidence lies with the editor who adds or restores material. Any material that is challenged or likely to be challenged needs a reliable source, which should be cited in the article. If an article topic has no reliable, third-party sources, Wikipedia should not have an article on it. -- No Guru 22:22, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

The section was written in a very POV way and much of the information was followed by citations as if it was supported by the sources when it wasn't. I re-wrote it and added details like the judge's findings which had been left out. --Gloriamarie (talk) 05:53, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Atheist?

The article is in the American Atheist category but I don't see anything in the article as it stands to suggest that he was in fact an atheist. Pretzelpaws 20:38, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

His mother was an extremely active evangelist all her life, which turned Ted off the Lord and his work. I have seen no evidence for Ted being an atheist. At worst he was indifferent to religion, but his actions throughout his life prove that his mother's teachings had an impact. Lineimage 03:33, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

There is the teammate Johnny Pesky quote from Sports Illustrated, "He was an atheist. He didn't believe in religion." 71.160.248.79 19:15, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Pesky wasn't Ted. Williams himself stated he believed in God numerous times. MerryPranksters (talk) 07:42, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

Confusion about Rip Sewell home run and film footage

Ted Williams hit the game winning home run in the 1941 All Star Game in Detroit off of Claude Passeau. The footage of him skippping around the bases is from that game. He described it as "his greatest thrill in baseball". Williams did hit a home run off of Rip Sewell's Eephus pitch in the 1946 All-Star Game, in the 8th inning.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.237.182.233 (talk • contribs) 22:09, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Alcor's rebuttal of SI

I read Alcor's rebuttal of SI, and at the end there's this: "The best proof that Alcor handles cases responsibly is that in 32 years of Alcor history and detailed case reports, no reports can be found of anyone choosing cryonics with Alcor ever going to reporters or authorities to complain that they were misled by Alcor, or regretted their choice of Alcor." Does anyone else find it unsurprising that no people cryonically frozen by Alcor have complained? I don't, since as far as I know, dead people who have had their heads cut off and members put in liquid nitrogen don't complain much.--Grand Slam 7 02:32, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

I remember blog traffic at the time where people asked why the two children who sent him there weren't complaining, and apparently still wanted to be frozen themselves. They and others waiting to be frozen are presumably the "choosers" spoken of. 76.169.207.173 03:02, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Interesting?

There's a line that I'm not seeing the significance of: "Interestingly, it(the infield shift) is often used against David Ortiz, Jason Giambi, Jim Thome and Travis Hafner."

Why is this interesting in an article about Ted Williams? If it is that interesting, some more elucidation would help. --Don Sowell 21:07, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

There have been no answers forthcoming in about four months on why this is so interesting or relevant to Ted Williams, so I've pulled it. --Don Sowell 22:10, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

There should be a discussion of the williams shift, it was first designed for him since he refused to hit the ball to the opposite field, and now it is used frequently. I remember seeing a picture of the shift in the hall of fame Williams exhibit. I am pretty sure it was a novel defensive alignment for him specifically. 12.165.172.4 (talk) 17:44, 26 September 2011 (UTC) Sean

"9"

I've stumbled across this page and have no idea what the picture of the "9" is about. Should it have a comment or caption or redirection?— Preceding unsigned comment added by Boomshanka (talk • contribs) 04:59, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

It was his number and it probably should have a comment. BrainRotMenacer 18:25, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Rounding up to .400

I would like to see some discussion of whether Williams' 1941 average would really have been rounded up to .400. I could add it myself; I simply question whether this is the place for this sort of detail; or on the other hand, whether a separate article would be worthwhile, since it would pretty much only concern Williams.

It is true that it has been widely reported that his next-to-last-day average of .39955 would have been rounded up to .400. However, Major League Baseball has a penchant for simply using extra digits when needed. Williams himself was once a victim of this. In 1949, he and George Kell both hit .343. But they didn't tie for the batting championship; Kell was the one and only champion that year, .3429 to .3427. Similarly, needing 75% of the vote to get into the Hall of Fame, Nellie Fox in 1985 received only 74.8%; they didn't round, and he was kept out. This was Fox's last year of eligibility from the Baseball Writers; he didn't get in until the Veterans Committee voted him in 1997.

Even had Williams been recognized at the time as a .400 hitter--and, for most purposes except whether he actually did hit .400, they probably would have rounded it--he probably no longer would be. Baseball has tightened up some of its recognition of various feats, including eliminating recognition of some feats accomplished long ago. Ty Cobb had one batting championship taken away; Harvey Haddix had his 12-inning perfect game, along with a number of other pitchers' no-hitters, moved to a separate category of close but no cigar. Most likely, Williams would now be recognized as replacing Lefty O'Doul (.3981 in 1929) as the hitter who came closest to .400 without quite making it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mr-phil (talk • contribs) 23:47, 18 March 2007 (UTC).

The baseball stats go to a fourth decimal point (and beyond if necessary) to break ties between players or teams. I don't believe they'd do so in this case, comparing Williams to some hypothetical Mister 400. I'm pretty sure that Williams would have gone on to the .400 Hitters List, though a footnote may have been added at times when the list was presented. (I've always wondered what would have happened if Roberto Clemente had died with 2,999 hits: would they have granted him honorary status in the 3,000 Hit Club?WHPratt (talk) 14:05, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

I’m less sure of that now! In checking contemporary newspaper accounts, I find that stories generally said that Williams “dropped below .400” when he stood at .3996, and headlined that he “finished at .405” while the text admitted to .4057. This suggests that had Ted sat out final day, the media may well have pronounced this a .399 season. (Sadly, none of the accounts I’ve yet found gives results of all his plate appearances chronologically for those last days.) WHPratt (talk) 13:21, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

• • My understanding, and perhaps this is apocryphal, is that he had a .399 ba going in to his last AB of the season. He was offered the opportunity to sit out the AB, thereby guaranteeing that he would finish the season at .400. Instead, he took the AB and hit a HR, raising his average to .406. He finished the 1941 season with a .406 BA.

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=willite01

Djcbuffum (talk) 02:30, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Ted would have hit .411 instead of .406 had the sacrifice fly rule not been on hiatus that year. WHPratt (talk) 17:01, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Since we are splitting hairs here, I note that the article says "In 1941, he entered the last day of the season with a batting average of .39955 . . . . He singled in his first at-bat, raising his average to .402 . . . " I was checking this, and if he was 179/448 = .399554 prior to the game, then 180/449 = .400891, so he actually went to .401, not .402 with that first hit. WHPratt (talk) 17:18, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

You're right.

Game details for 1941 are not in Retrosheet, but the Montville book discusses the final games in some detail on pp.90-97. The Red Sox's final series of the season was a three-game weekend set in Philadelphia (Shibe Park). Williams' average going in was .4009. Connie Mack cancelled the Friday game and instead scheduled it on Sunday to create a doubleheader, in hopes of greater attendance overall. Mack started 3 rookie pitchers, and that concerned Williams because he did not know what to expect. Here's what Williams did:

Saturday - (innings not given) base on balls - double (raising average to .402) - flied to right - fouled to first - (9th) struck out (for only the 27th time in 1941) - 1 for 4 - overall 179 for 448 - average now .39955.

Sunday - game 1 - (2nd) single to right - (5th) home run to right - (6th) single up the middle - (7th) single to right - (8th) safe on error - 4 for 5 - overall 183 for 453 - average now .404.

Sunday - game 2 - (innings not given) single to right - double off loudspeaker in right-center - infield popup out - game shortened by darkness - 2 for 3 - overall 185 for 456 - average now .406 (actually .4057, as noted in The Scrapbook History of baseball).

←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 19:30, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. As this is one of baseball's great dramatic/cliffhanger stories, perhaps when all the plate appearances are accounted for, this could be added to the encyclopedia in some fashion, complete with a graph showing the line of Ted's batting average sneaking back up into glorified strata. Such might be added to the "batting average" article with a crossreference here.WHPratt (talk) 13:56, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

vandalism?

Someone who knows more about Ted Williams should probably repair the second paragraph of Early Life, where it says:

"He turned professional while still in high school, and had offers from the Yankees and the Cardinals, but decided to play basketball with Joe at the local Y. Joe was usually hot from the corners, and played absolutely sintalating defense by waving is plastic leg in front of Ted, while he would try to shoot, giving Williams the hand-eye coordination needed to hit a baseball."— Preceding unsigned comment added by RGarella (talk • contribs) 15:08, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Basque / Mexican background

This article states, "His mother, May Venzor, was a Salvation Army worker of Basque descent from Ciudad Juarez, Mexico." That suggests that May Venzor was primarily of Basque descent which is not the case. The Venzor's ancestors were originally Basques who emigrated to Mexico, however, they intermarried with Mexicans. May Venzor's mother was full Mexican and her father was Mexican as well as Basque.[1] The Venzors referred to themselves as "Mexicans" and Ted Williams himself referred to that side of his family as "the Mexicans"[2]. Williams also once told Nomar Garciaparra(Mexican-American) that he was also Mexican. So I don't understand why May Venzor's Basque heritage is being emphasized. SamChambers (talk) 10:45, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

good point SamChambers, I almost want to say that there's a climate of bigoted hostility towards things "mexican" to a lot of American archivists, particularly on Wikipedia, to downplay the Mexican people or even relegate them to a corner of "irrelevance". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.247.18.49 (talk) 09:02, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Once again, as a family member, I've never felt any effort to downplay our Mexican background in the family. From talking with older family members I've learned that the family came to California with trades and businesses. They didn't live in the Mexican community, classwise they were probably better off. Ted's grandfather was a stone mason; his grandmother's two brothers were ranchers and businessmen. Other arms of the family had dairies, real estate, grocery stores, etc. Some did marry Mexicans and become more Mexican. Others, like Ted's mother did not. If you saw a picture of the assembled family you'd be surprised at the diversity. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.231.131.149 (talk) 18:59, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Having green/blue eyes doesn't mean you're any less mexican. There are tons of pocket communities that have fair skin/eyes in central mexico. So his family being from california means nothing considering Mexican isn't a race or ethnicity but a nationality. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.147.199.202 (talk) 22:34, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Citations & References

See Wikipedia:Footnotes for an explanation of how to generate footnotes using the <ref(erences/)> tags Nhl4hamilton (talk) 10:59, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

OBP Stat.

The article states that he held the liftime OBP record at .551 for 61 years. But Baseball Almanac has him listed as still holding the all-time OBP record at .482

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/hitting/hiobp1.shtml

Which is correct? Or am I missing someting?

Djcbuffum (talk) 02:23, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

He holds the lifetime OBP record at .482 and he held the single-season OBP record for 61 years (.553, not .551, actually): see [3][4]. Both are technically correct, but the article is unclear about which is being discussed in the lead. That needs to be clarified in one direction or the other. Camanda (talk) 02:33, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Remove the statistics grid

There is no reason to add his career stats to this wiki article, per WP:NOT#STATS. A link or links to relevant websites that have this information should be used instead. Timneu22 (talk) 10:56, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Following the lead of other articles, a single line covering his career stats such be sufficient. The details - probably more than anyone but a die-hard figger filbert would want - are in the external links. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 13:18, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Um, so you agree to remove the grid? Timneu22 (talk) 18:14, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm not removing anything. I'm just saying it's probably not needed. But it's not bothering me that much either. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 18:21, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

It doesn't bother me too much but it irks me because it isn't right. I'll probably remove it by monday ;-). Timneu22 (talk) 22:28, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

For guidance, you could look at Ty Cobb. However, check Babe Ruth. As a last resort, you could go to WP:Baseball and see what their talk page has to say, if anything. I think this issue came up before, but it might be archived. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 22:47, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

It did come up, and I was the one who brought it up! :) There was some agreement that grids aren't cool. Timneu22 (talk) 00:28, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

So YOU were the one! Well, the operative word there, I guess, is "some" agreement. So your best bet is probably to change this one to just a single career line, and see if anyone beefs. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 02:44, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm beefin'!! Actors on WIKI have all their movies listed; even one-line parts, awards and nominations are listed. Writers- all their books, manuscripts, and whatever else listed; musicians- all the albums (and all the songs listed therein), Grammy's, Oscars, Tony's et. al.; but one grid line to summarize a great player's career?? What a bunch of hypocrites!! Cut to the "Greatest Hitter of All Time"Dcrasno (talk) 01:10, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Trouble with dates

The article says that he died in 2002. But is he really "dead" if he's going to be revived soon? And how do we format the article once he is revived from cryonic suspension? Please, this is a serious question. I'm interested in cryonics and I'm a huge basketball fan 203.184.2.234 (talk) 03:37, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

That's funny. Tell us another one. P.S. Williams was a baseball player. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 03:40, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Family Heritage

Can whoever posted this provide some background or details? I'm curious, as a family member, of the connection.

"Through his Mexican side he is related to Mexican Revolutionary General Pascual Orozco and in turn Maximilian II, Holy Roman Emperor." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.141.254.82 (talk) 18:45, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Indeed, I am also a family member and can't seem to verify his Hispanic ancestry beyond Pablo Venzor and Natalia Hernandez. I have them placed around the city of Valle de Allende in Chihuahua, Mexico, but that is also unverifiable. James Scribner (talk) 03:38, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, I've heard Parral as the family origin in Mexico. I believe Natalia's maiden name was Rubio. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.141.246.145 (talk) 21:48, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

WikiTree has a pretty large tree on his mother's side: https://www.wikitree.com/treewidget/Williams-42001/5

I don't find any obvious close connection to Pascual Orozco and a distant relation would be trivia that would probably not be worth a mention. At least Orozco's mother's side were Basque immigrants; Williams mother had roots in Chihuahua so maybe a distant connection to Orozco is possible but outside the scope of this article even if evidence existed. NTK (talk) 07:02, 23 March 2018 (UTC)

The Ted Williams Museum/Hall of Fame

Quote: The Tampa Bay Rays home field, Tropicana Field, has installed the Ted Williams Museum (formerly in Hernando, Florida) behind the right field fence. From the Tampa Bay Rays website: "The Ted Williams Museum and Hitters Hall of Fame brings a special element to the Tropicana Field. Fans can view an array of different artifacts and pictures of the 'Greatest hitter that ever lived.' These memorable displays range from Ted Williams' days in the military through his professional playing career. This museum is dedicated to some of the greatest players to ever 'lace 'em up,' including Willie Mays, Joe DiMaggio, Mickey Mantle, Roger Maris, and Sadaharu Oh."

I'm told that Williams included Shoeless Joe Jackson in his hall of fame, scorning Jackson's exclusion by the "official" Hall. WHPratt (talk) 14:11, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

"The greatest hitter who ever lived"

This statement at the end of the first paragraph is supported by two footnotes. The first footnote is an article that concludes in its last sentence, "Ruth is the best hitter the game has ever produced." With all due respect for Williams and the opinions of his admirers, shouldn't either the statement be revised or a better footnote be found? Or better yet, giving the article a new section to review the issue? --McTeague (talk) 18:01, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

I'm with McTeague here. The first footnote concludes that Ruth was the best. The second was general, listing Williams as "one of the best..." and Tim K.'s (from ESPN) was as slanted an opinion as I've ever seen. OBP (on-base pct) and SA (slugging avg.) are the best "proof" of a great hitter?? What about BA (batting avg.), HR's Doubles, Triples, RBI's and all the other "real" indicators. If you list Williams by these "real" indicators, he's certainly not the "Greatest Hitter"; the best walker, perhaps. Call Bugs here. How much difference is there between- .344, .342, and .340. In order, those avg.'s (in decimals) represent- Williams, Ruth and Gehrig. The best of even these three? Williams is third on that list. Guys like the Wascally Wabbit don't want the entire grid because then no one can analyze the year by year totals and the trends of a great hitter. Then guys like Bugs can hide behind one grid line and not mention that "The Greatest..." never had 200 hits in a season- not once; only two 190's. Ruth did it three times, and a 199- Stan Musial and Derek Jeter, six times. Gehrig did it eight times, and a season of 198, Pete Rose, ten times and two seasons of 198. And on and on re HIts, Doubles, Triples, RBI's and even HR's. Williams hit .406 on 185 hits and 145 walks. "The Greatest Hitter"??? Don't make me laugh. Like I said "The Greatest Walker of All Time"!! Dcrasno (talk) 02:02, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Are you saying BA, RBI, etc. are "real" and OBP and SLG are not? Saros136 (talk) 11:58, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

OBP and SA are certainly important but the question is- are those two stats the most important indicators of a great hitter as Tim K. from ESPN says; I don't. However, if You want them, here OBP- Williams,.482/1, Ruth,.469/2, Gehrig,.442/4. SA- Ruth, .690/1, Williams, .634/2, Gehrig, .632/3. How much difference is here to indicate that Williams was so far above Ruth and/or Gehrig? Ruth had more hits, triples, obviously HR's and RBI's and finished @.342 to Williams .344. Gehrig had more hits, doubles, triples, 28 less HR's, many more RBI's and finished @.340 to Williams .344. Williams was certainly a great hitter, especially in his early career but the "Greatest"?? NODcrasno (talk) 16:40, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Professionalism

This article especially bits in the "relationship with boston media" section seems to be written in an inappropriate style. (SSJPabs (talk)) —Preceding undated comment added 14:53, 5 October 2009 (UTC).

Reuters obituary

“Our father was not a religious man. The faith that many people place in god, we place in science and other human endeavors.” — Children of baseball legend Ted Williams, Reuters, July 25, 2002 67.243.7.245 (talk) 03:37, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Minor point of wording

Re an edit I made, changing "surrounded by players...including Tony Gwynn and fellow Red Sox Nomar Garciaparra" to "...including fellow Red Sox player Nomar Garciaparra", later reverted by editor Baseball Bugs: on the one hand this is a very minor point to bother fussing about. On the other hand, that cuts both ways, and I did have legitimate reasons for my edit, so unless I'm offered a good reason why the edition was bad, I'm going to dig my heels in. Here is why I made the change:

1) There is no reason to single out Tony Gwynn over any other player (it was an all-star game; all of the players there were notable).

2) Calling a single person "a Red Sox" feels wrong: the general convention is to drop the plural when referring to players of a team ("a Yankee"; "a Phillie"). "Red Sox player" is a way of avoiding the issue. Note that the only other place in the article where this comes up (in reference to Johnny Pesky), the same formulation "Red Sox player" was already used in this article.

Note that both of the above minor issues were only introduced in the first place as the result of the mistaken assumption that Tony Gwynn was a Red Sox player: the phrase originally read "...including Red Sox Tony Gwynn and Nomar Garciaparra". An editor later fixed this factual mistake, leaving the sentence with the above stylistic infelicities. JudahH (talk) 15:55, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

"Red Sox" as a singular is perfectly acceptable. I imagine the reason Gwynn was mentioned is because (1) he's associated with San Diego, Williams' home town; and (2) he's associated with a high level of batting skill, as Williams was. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 17:23, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

All right, well in truth I don't see a strong reason to single out anyone at all, including even Nomar, but if you think there are reasons that Tony Gwynn's name is a point of interest (such as the one you mention), then I don't have a real problem with its inclusion. Same goes for singular "Red Sox"--it still sounds a touch odd to my ear, but nothing worth making a stand about. If you still want to change the wording back, I won't re-revert it again. JudahH (talk) 04:38, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

The usage I've heard is "he's a Red Sox" or "he's a White Sox". If it were "Socks" you could say "Sock", but "Sox" is a coined word that doesn't really have a separate singular form... although it could also be argued that "he's a Sox" is really short for "he's a Sox player"... which means that "he's a Cub" is incorrect usage. As far as Gwynn and Garciaparra, I want to see when and by whom those items were inserted. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 05:54, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

OK, the Gwynn think goes back several years, and it was indeed based on the San Diego connection. However, he was initially referred to as a "fellow San Diegan", which is not quite correct as he was born in L.A. and moved to San Diego to attend college. The Garciaparra thing was added later, though still at least a couple of years ago. I'm inclined to leave it out. In short, I'm inclined to leave it as you've got it. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 06:03, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Untitled

I thought Mr Red Sox is Johnny Pesky? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.141.242.162 (talk) 22:51, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

84 consecutive games reaching base safely

This article mentions Joe DiMaggio's hitting streak, but has no mention of Ted's record of 84 consecutive games reaching base safely, which I consider an even more impressive record. I think reaching base safely via a walk or hbp is vastly underrated as the hitter has no control over whether or not he's pitched to. Can anyone fit the record in somewhere? Dancindazed (talk) 23:25, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

batting averages with 0's

I went ahead and deleted all the 0's everywhere they were improperly used in batting averages such as "ted williams batted 0.400" to change them to ex: .400. the lack of a number in the 10's place before a decimal implies a 0 and is written that way in both math and even more often in baseball. if anyone feels the 0's should stay please discuss. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.9.222.112 (talk) 05:42, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

Agreed. You're not likely to find any source that puts a leading 0 there. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 13:08, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

Ted Williams Brand

Ted Williams Brand has been proposed for a merge into this main article since about a year ago, with attendant tags. I'm not even sure if that article meets notability, but it is quite short, and could be merged in with minimal impact. At the least, a decision on the merge should be made. Absent better notions, I'd merge it and let it persist or not as a section in the main article. ENeville (talk) 00:55, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

Absent any comment, I'm executing the merge. ENeville (talk) 19:28, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

File:Ted-williams-statue crop 340x234.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion

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Hall of Fames

There is mention of Williams in Baseball and Fishing Hall of Fame, being the only athlete in two halls, but the Jim Brown page talks about Brown being in football hall of fame and lacrosee hall of fame. This should be changed. 12.165.172.4 (talk) 17:48, 26 September 2011 (UTC)Sean

Wilt Chamberlain is in two HOFs - Basketball and Volleyball. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.52.81.11 (talk) 05:54, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

17-time All-Star

Moved to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Baseball § YahwehSaves

 – —Bagumba (talk) 23:19, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

Williams is a "17-time" MLB All-Star (AL) according to Hall of Fame [5] [6]. 1939-42, 1946-51, 1953-60 (17 years).— Preceding unsigned comment added by YahwehSaves (talk • contribs) 07:40, 14 December 2012 (UTC) YahwehSaves (talk) 05:04, 25 December 2012 (UTC)

Two key stats missing

• No mention of the 84 consecutive games reaching base safely (issue was raised two years ago above). Comparatively, DiMaggio walked before his 56 and after his 56 and then had another 16 consecutive games with a hit...which actually would mean DiMaggio reached base safely in 74 consecutive games...Williams still kicks his ass.
• No mention of his 16-for-16 at bats (which statistically is harder than the stats for Williams' 84 or DiMaggio's 56). I think this was in 1947.

Why are these omitted?--ColonelHenry (talk) 19:58, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

Great fielder?

This article states early on that Williams was an "outstanding fielder." More like an average fielder. Yaz, Fred Lynn, and Dwight Evans were great fielders. Williams has enough accomplishments that there is no need to embellish his fielding (or speed). — Preceding unsigned comment added by AaronCBurke (talk • contribs) 02:40, 27 January 2017 (UTC)

Elden Auker, who pitched for the Red Sox in the 1940s, was a member of our Central Florida SABR chapter. Once, in assessing his own fielding support, he mentioned Williams in the same sentence as Dom DiMaggio. I said "So, Williams was a good fielder?" He replied that he felt confident with Ted out there. I know that runs against conventional wisdom, but it's an unimpeachable source. Many concede that Ted did learn to play the "monster" wall to good advantage. WHPratt (talk) 06:08, 3 February 2018 (UTC)

Alcor

Nothing about Larry Johnson's claims of corpse abuse at Alcor? Seems like this should be mentioned.

• https://www.si.com/vault/2003/08/18/348299/what-really-happened-to-ted-williams-a-year-after-the-jarring-news-that-the-splendid-splinter-was-being-frozen-in-a-cryonics-lab-new-details-including-a-decapitation-suggest-that-one-of-americas-greatest-heroes-may-never-rest-in
• http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/ted-williams-frozen-head-batting-practice-cryogenics-lab-book-article-1.381985
• Frozen ISBN 1-59-315560-3

NTK (talk) 06:32, 23 March 2018 (UTC)

Place of death

The footnote for the statement that Williams died at Citrus in Inverness is a no-go. I have it on good authority that he actually died at Shands Hospital in Gainesville. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:CF99:2080:AD12:BCBE:83DD:4285 (talk) 19:33, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

If you have a source that says as such put it in. Otherwise it's irrelevant as "good authority" from an anonymous IP who didn't even sign his comment isn't proof. Vyselink (talk) 19:57, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

Full House

Has anybody read Full House, by Stephen Jay Gould? There is a lot of stuff there on the decline of batting averages. Gould is more interested in Joe DiMaggio, but there is lots on Ted Williams. --JHowardGibson (talk) 15:21, 17 July 2020 (UTC)

Post Career

Ted Williams was so interested in hunting and fishing that he, like Babe Ruth, visited L.L. Bean in Freeport, Maine. In retirement, Williams even made Mr. Bean an offer to buy part of L.L. Bean as a business. This correspondence is reportedly in the possession of the Bean company, according to a documentary on Mr. Bean. Somebody may want to edit the main article in this regard because it is an interesting facet of Ted's retirement years. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.49.27.38 (talk) 23:39, 10 March 2021 (UTC)

BB%

Someone add that he is the all time leader in BB%. Thanks. BaseballHOFPlayers (talk) 00:05, 17 December 2021 (UTC)

Inglourious Basterds name-drop

I would like to add a line in this article re: the Williams reference in the film Inglourious Basterds. I have written up the following, but don't know if it should go in the 'Legacy' section, in a new 'In Popular Culture' section, or if it should be excluded altogether. I'll defer to someone with more experience...

> Williams' reputation as a strong hitter has also garnered recognition in popular culture. In the film Inglourious Basterds (2009), Sargeant Donny Donowitz (who sports a thick Boston accent) invokes Williams' name while beating a Nazi officer with a baseball bat. Drcatherwood (talk) 21:47, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

Seems to be trivia to me, which would bump up against WP:WEIGHT. In the greater scheme of his life and career, it's just a single mention. Anastrophe (talk) 22:10, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

References

Error in article

The intro calls him a 19-time all-star. Later, it says "first of 16 all star appearances." Which is correct? 73.86.46.50 (talk) 14:31, 25 May 2023 (UTC)