Talk:Marquette, Michigan

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Worcester

Named after Worcester, Mass, or after Worcester, England ?

Worchester, Mass. --Daniel C. Boyer 15:12, 10 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Monster

Since nobody (including myself, born and raised here) has EVER heard of the Marquette Monster, I went ahead and deleted the blurb. Simple.

It's on the sign in front of Old City Hall. Look at it. Plus, you know the guidelines say that your not having heard of something isn't controlling, right? --Daniel C. Boyer 15:13, 10 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I am removing the "Marquette Monster" reference. The standard for inclusion is three notable sources. If you can find a newspaper, magazine, book, reliable website, or scholarly article that mentions the beast, reinsert it with a ref. Thanks, Wachholder 17:47, 25 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

(Following comments moved here from previous location above Worcester, as cleanup) LightRobb (talk) 18:20, 19 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I've never heard of the Marquette Monster being associated with Marquette, Michigan - I grew up there and it was never part of the local lore.

I've never heard of a Marquette Monster either, and I spent the first 19 years of my life there.

I'm living there now and I have never heard anything about the Marquette Monster

Also living in Marquette and have written about a dozen articles on various Marquette history and culture subjects. The Marquette Monster is unheard of as far as I am concerned. Where did this information come from? Everyone knows about the Hodag, but the Marquette Monster? no.

The Marquette Monster is, inter alia on the sign in front of Old City Hall. Look at it. --Daniel C. Boyer 15:14, 10 May 2007 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by LightRobb (talk • contribs) [reply]

Dome Ownership

I do believe the State of Michigan owns the Superior Dome, and NMU simply manages it. Will do further digging...

Yes, you are correct on that. I don't have a link but I was up there while it was built. Dmodlin71 03:59, 27 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Negative. The dome is owned by the university. Back in 2007, they wanted to turn ownership over to the state per [1], but I didn't find any articles showing that such a transfer took place. Imzadi 1979 → 16:45, 20 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Lighthouse

Wow, what a gorgeous picture of the lighthouse - definitely an angle on it that I haven't seen before! Does anyone have more info on it? I know it's one of the few manned lighthouses on the Great Lakes (by the Coast Guard.) Dmodlin71 03:59, 27 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Racial Demographics Problem

I myself don't know the precise demographics for Marquette but I do know it is predominately white, and it is wholly impossible to have a negative percentage of any race. If someone knows the actual figures they should change it immediately. Cptnspoon19 05:15, 26 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Okay I looked it up in the Census Bureau and found more accurate demographics. They're from 2000, so they're probably off still, but at least somewhat close to correct. Cptnspoon19 05:20, 26 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Main Picture

I was kinda wondering, maybe the old ore dock isn't the best picture out there to represent Marquette... Maybe a picture from mount Marquette overlooking the whole city might be better? This would include the ore dock and more of the city. Just an idea --Kyle van der Meer (talk) 16:57, 19 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I agree does anyone have this picture? Also I'll be moving up to Marquette in 9 months and counting so if the picture doesn't exist I'll be sure to grab it haha. --IvanTortuga (talk) 19:45, 27 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That does look much better Kyle van der Meer (talk) 04:28, 12 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Link

I put the following in the external links.

Beacons in the Night, Michigan Lighthouse Chronology, Clarke Historical Library, Central Michigan University.

Mr. Barek doesn't this it belongs there. Oh well. IRDGAS. Do what you want. Best regards. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 16:55, 27 March 2008 (UTC) Stan[reply]

Spamming of an external link with only marginal content on the cities mentioned is a violation of WP:ELNO and WP:NOT#REPOSITORY, as has been mentioned to you on your talk page twice already. The link has been reported to WP:WPSPAM for further review. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 18:19, 27 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This is not spam. Your unsubstantiated and unwarranted accusation doesn't make it so. No Ipse dixit here. You are entitled to you opinion, but you happen to be wrong. What part of Central Michigan University don't you understand?7&6=thirteen (talk) 19:36, 27 March 2008 (UTC)Stan[reply]

The term "spam" is referring to the behavior, not the link itself.

I fully acknowledge that the link may provide a useful ref tag entry for articles containing information for which the link provides facts to support those statements. However, please read WP:NOT#REPOSITORY and WP:NOT#DIRECTORY, as well as WP:EL. The link which you have added to roughly 100 article today is only marginally related to the subject articles. While it does provide interesting trivia, it is not providing directly relevant resources to the articles to which they have been added. If it were relevant to the article to discuss when the Marquette Harbor Light or the Marquette Breakwater Outer Light were either constructed or rebuilt, then the provided link would be a valuable reference link to substantiate those facts (as a ref tag, not as an external link).

However, this article is about Marquette, Michigan - and should not contain historical detail of everything within the city. If those lighthouses meet wikipedia's criteria for notability, then their own articles should be created and the link could be a valuable resource is such articles (again, more appropriately as a ref tag rather than as an external link). Likewise, if a more generic "Lighthouses of Michigan" or "Michigan lighthouses" article were created, the link would be valuable in such articles. But not in articles about cities/townships. Just because a link is potentially useful does not mean it should be included everywhere. A list of all the phone numbers in New York would be useful, but is not included because Wikipedia is not a directory. The same applies to this link in city/township articles. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 20:15, 27 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I for one put some faith in our readers. If they find it irrelevant, I'm sure they know how to leave the article and move on. I tend to err on the side of too much of the irrelevant, rather than too little of the relevant, since relevancy is in the eyes of the beholder. That's JMHO. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 20:38, 27 March 2008 (UTC)Stan[reply]

Northern Michigan University noise/experimental music scene

I was told that there is a large DIY/experimental noise scene in NMU, similar to the ones in Ann Arbor, Michigan, and Iowa City, Iowa, as well as California and other places. Can anyone verify this and add it to the article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.42.14.5 (talk) 14:52, 20 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

RE: Art on the Rocks festival

As my family moved to Marquette in 1958, I think I can say, with some little authority, that Art on the Rocks began on the rocks just north of the old Chamber of Commerce building, virtually at the feet of the Father Marquette statue there. The festival moved out to The Island in the mid-to-late 60s, because it needed more room. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.171.188.67 (talk) 03:59, 12 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

That's great! They way things work here is that we cite reliable verifiable sources for our information. Given your locality, you should have no difficulty finding an article or two about the fest's founding and subsequent move in the local newspaper archives. If you or someone in your family has some decent pictures of the event the would share with the world, that would be great, too! If there's anything I can do to be of assistance, please don't hesitate to ask. Learning the ropes here can be a bit challenging, but I'd be happy to serve as your guide. Rklawton (talk) 00:46, 15 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Does anyone else find it interesting that the june/july temperatures avg. out to 66.6?

I have a weird superstition. :) Anyways, I'm just mentioning that I changed the elevation measurement because of this superstition!

Adieu Wikipedians!

70.94.247.254 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.94.247.254 (talk) 18:32, 19 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Changed back per GNIS. Sorry about your issues, guy! John from Idegon (talk) 22:07, 19 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The Cat Who... is a novel series of murder mystery novels by Lilian Jackson Braun.

Is Marquette, MI a setting for The Cat Who... novels series of murder mystery novels by Lilian Jackson Braun? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.130.164.40 (talk) 06:12, 29 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Notable people

In the last few days I have added a bunch of people to the notables section. This was my methodology: I used the "What links here" tab and then checked all the person names that came up. If their article showed residence, birth or death in Marquette, I added them. I did not add people in the following categories: people whose only connection was attendance at Northern or whose only connection was imprisonment at the pen. I was kinda unsure about the Olympic training center, so I added them if they attended high school in Marquette or were on staff. Any comments wold be appreciated.

On another point related, there are enough names here now to consider forking a list of notable people off as a separate article. Thoughts? John from Idegon (talk) 22:13, 5 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hmmm. Isn't this why we have categories, though? :-) Ed ^{[talk] [majestic titan]} 18:10, 6 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

What do categories have to do with it? If you are replying to the last paragraph, forking is exactly what the ciy article guidelines call for in this situation. John from Idegon (talk) 22:46, 6 June 2014 (UTC)t[reply]

Climate

There have only been four tornadoes in this area since 1950. The first was an F1 in Republic on August 19, 1973.--Kevjgav (talk) 07:19, 2 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

"Warm"

Re this edit: I think it's more accurate this way, and "warm" isn't a needed word in there; people have different definitions of warm depending on where they are from and where they are living. Ed ^{[talk] [majestic titan]} 03:32, 30 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Your link doesn't actually point to a revision (though I assume you mean [2]). Anyway, I'm not sure if "warm" is entirely objective, and what you reverted to is moreso. Do we know of a source we can use to fix the citation needed tag? Chris857 (talk) 04:23, 30 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Chris857: Ah, my apologies on the mistaken link; that was one of the revisions in question. What citation needed tag? Ed ^{[talk] [majestic titan]} 01:18, 31 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Warm implies "above average" or warmer than an implied comparison. The only implied comparison is the US and the average for the US is higher than for Marquette. There is no source indicating "warm" and pure reasoning would possibly allow for "cool" hence I removed the peacock and left it stating the facts. SPACKlick (talk) 15:49, 2 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Mean temperature

Neither source matches the numbers being added by @Zzz9998:. Anyone know where they come from? SPACKlick (talk) 10:14, 27 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I checked the NWS source. The numbers match the one from the airport observation site (under "daily/monthly normals" but this is incorrect since the data (highs and lows is taken from the other observation site. It should use mean temps from the same station, not from a different one. Ssbbplayer (talk) 15:58, 27 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

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Restoring Some Deleted Material

On 16 July 2016 I added text and images to the article. Later in the day John from Idegon (talk) reverted all of those edits and then restored one line of text. The comment provided with the reversion was "Reverted 4 edits by Sf9000: A bunch non MOS compliant or totally unneeded changes, addition of images not discussed in text, addition of a gallery that contains images entirely accessible from Wikilink in the article."

I appreciate the feedback on my edits. Based on the feedback I have reviewed the MOS and other related documents. I accept that some of the reversions were appropriate. However, I have two concerns with the deletions:

No explanation was given for deleting the text I added for the Presque Isle Harbor Breakwater Lighthouse in the list of lighthouses in Marquette. This is a lighthouse in Marquette as described in the reference originally cited. Further, it is on the National Register of Historic Places^[1]. Including this lighthouse is both correct and adds value to the article.
I question "images not discussed in text" as a rationale for removing images. I do not see that guidance in the MOS. Further, a number of images in the article are not discussed in the text (e.g., there is no text of the form "see the figure" or "see the adjacent photograph"). Instead, the Image Use Policy states, "The purpose of an image is to increase readers' understanding of the article's subject matter, usually by directly depicting people, things, activities, and concepts described in the article." In other words, the test of relevance should be whether the article discusses the subject of the image, not the image itself. By the standard set by the Image Use Policy, I believe the photographs of the Presque Isle Harbor Breakwater Light, Marquette's Presque Isle Harbor Ore Dock, and the view of downtown Marquette should not have been removed. Each of those three photographs depicted subjects that were described in the article, and—I believe—would improve the understanding of the subject, for instance by illustrating what the Breakwater Light and what Marquette's active ore dock look like, their size, etc. Further, none of those images is easily accessible via a Wikilink from the article.

Based on that rationale, I propose to restore some, but not all, of the content that was removed as follows:

Text and image for the Presque Isle Harbor Breakwater Light, but using "Light" instead of "Lighthouse" (the structure is called a "Light" but is a lighthouse) and referencing the National Park Service page cited above instead of the nautical charts previously referenced
Image for the Marquette's Presque Isle Harbor Ore Dock, more clearly highlighting the ore dock in the caption. The image would be associated with the text for this ore dock in the Transportation section.
Image of downtown Marquette as seen from Mount Marquette. Instead of including this in a gallery, I would include it in the section on Geography. Many of the significant features in the photograph, including the Superior Dome, harbors, and ore docks, are already discussed in the article. I would add some text to the Geography section to include other significant aspect's of Marquette's geography, such as Presque Isle and the two harbors, which are shown in the image.

I would not restore the image gallery.

I believe those changes will add value to the article, address the substance of the concerns raised by John from Idegon (talk), and make better contributions to the article than I had originally provided. I would appreciate feedback on these proposed changes.

Sf9000 (talk) 22:14, 27 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

My suggestion would be to create the article for the light and link to it with a brief summary here. Any place on the NRHP is automatically notable and should have an article. Generally, in a top level article in a category like this (the category being Marquette), we keep discussion of subtopics that have articles brief and rely on wikilinking for the details. Any pictures added should be directly related to copy in the article, both in layout proximity and in subject matter, and should be of such a nature to show better than words could the subject being discussed. Although I'm not an expert by any means, I'll be happy to help you create the aforementioned article. You know where my talk page is. I've written at least one NRHP article and am pretty familiar with Marquette. John from Idegon (talk) 23:18, 27 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you very much for the feedback and suggestion. I will consider the suggestion to create a new article about the light. Sf9000 (talk) 01:09, 8 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ "Presque Isle Harbor Breakwater Light". National Register of Historic Places Program. Retrieved 27 August 2016.

Suburbs

The removal of this information is clearly verging on vandalism. Marquette does have suburbs (as is alluded to at https://roadtrippers.com/us/marquette-mi/accommodation/marquette-motor-lodge-marquette .) The basis for saying it has none is nonsense. --Daniel C. Boyer (talk) 18:45, 8 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Marquette is not an urban area. The built-up area may bleed into the adjacent townships, but that doesn't make those areas "suburban". A single tour guide website isn't sufficient to prove otherwise. Imzadi 1979 → 20:16, 8 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

It is not an infrequent occurrence that technical terms which have specific meanings, such as suburb and vandalism, will get used incorrectly as a colloquialism here on Wikipedia. Doesn't make it correct. John from Idegon (talk) 23:27, 8 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Marquette's suburbs are suburbs by pretty much any definition, including that provided in the Wikipedia article on suburb. (It is common in Michigan for even relatively small towns to have suburbs.) Marquette is a city and these suburbs function as such. It seems you have some weird interest (or agenda) in them not being suburbs. --Daniel C. Boyer (talk) 08:15, 10 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

As a resident of the area, "Brookton Corners" is not used by anyone as a geographic location these days, Trowbridge Park essentially only has the status of a neighborhood and no longer a distinct community, and no one would refer to them or Harvey as a suburb of Marquette. Imzadi 1979 → 12:34, 10 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I was born in Hancock and lived most of my life in Houghton, but spent very substantial amounts of time in all three towns (Harvey, Brookton Corners and Trowbridge Park). Brookton Corners was never used by anyone as a "geographical location"; it is a town. (A simple Googling will refute most of these claims.) And when did Trowbridge Park lose this status (again, you might consult some references.)? There is simply no such thing as a neighbourhood (of a city) that is its own town and outside of the city in question. Are Yonkers and Mineola neighbourhoods of New York? As for Harvey, you might consult the link I provided. It's simply not true what you're saying, which seems to be a kind of original research contrary to all objective evidence, research for the purpose of confirming a previously-determined conclusion that Marquette has no suburbs. --Daniel C. Boyer (talk) 17:16, 10 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

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RE: Frederic Baraga Postal Card

@Imzadi1979: Hi, I took a look at the reference you provided, and there is no mention of anything taking place in Marquette on that date. Would you please explain how the content is supported by the reference? Thanks. - Tystnaden (talk) 23:20, 28 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

And after finally making a trip to the library while they're open, I can replace that stopgap with a source that explicitly cites everything in that sentence, Tystnaden. (For the record, the newspaper article states that the card was issued the previous day, Friday, June 29 1984.) Imzadi 1979 → 20:04, 1 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Great! - Tystnaden (talk) 01:13, 2 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

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Trowbridge Park

It is better to say that the bus stops in the town. This is more specific than just saying it stops in Marquette Township. The only reason to argue otherwise would be a weird animus against the town. --2604:2000:14C3:43AD:ADED:D313:E5D6:80C9 (talk) 15:59, 2 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Excuse me, IP, but could you please explain? I'm guessing you make that statement in some context, but knowing the context is necessary to reply.John from Idegon (talk) 16:16, 2 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@John from Idegon: the IP refers to the fact that this article on the City of Marquette mentions that the regional bus service operates their stop for the city out of the local transit authority's station. That station is located in an area of Marquette Township that the Census Bureau has placed within the unincorporated community/CDP of Trowbridge Park. However, there are no signs anywhere to tell someone that he or she has entered this community, and typically Trowbridge Park refers to the neighborhoods east of the area where the station is located. Imzadi 1979 → 18:10, 2 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Trowbridge Park doesn't refer to any neighbourhoods at all. It refers to the town of Trowbridge Park. --2604:2000:14C3:43AD:ADED:D313:E5D6:80C9 (talk) 19:52, 2 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

As a local, I can assure you, there is no "town" there. Trowbridge Park is just a section of Marquette Township best described now as a neighborhood. It really lacks a separate identity these days, and what carries that identity doesn't encompass the area around the bus station. Imzadi 1979 → 23:09, 2 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Despite your assurances, there is definitely a town there, and assertions to the contrary are baffling. What event or events happened to transform the town into a neighbourhood, and when? None, and never. Is Trowbridge Park multiple neighbourhoods, as you seem to assert, and, if so, what are the names of those neighbourhoods? And about the sign, it is a common problem with M-DOT that they haven't put up signs for several towns; this is more common when the built-up area is continuous from one town to the next. There was a multi-year struggle to get up a sign for Tamarack, for example. M-DOT isn't exactly sedulous with some things. --2604:2000:14C3:43AD:ADED:D313:E5D6:80C9 (talk) 01:19, 4 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

O.K., all this stuff about Trowbridge Park not being a town is just nonsense. It is a neighbourhood that doesn't include all of itself, or it is several totally undefined neighbourhoods without names. An unincorporated community is a type of town, and in Michigan, scads of unincorporated communities, towns, are part of the larger townships they're in, from Hurontown and Dodgeville to Bruce Crossing and Trowbridge Park. These arguments at the best don't make any sense, and at worst are trivially refutable. --2604:2000:14C3:43AD:BD10:1098:9206:E9B7 (talk) 01:55, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Take a look at Walter Romig's book on the history of Michigan's communities.^[1] You can find listings for:

Bruce Crossing (p. 83);
Dodgeville (p. 159);
Hurontown (p. 280); and
Tamarack (all three of them, p. 549).

Looking at the CDPs for Marquette County, and the book has listings for:

Big Bay (p. 60);
Gwinn (p. 245);
Harvey (p. 256);
K.I. Sawyer [Air Force Base] (p. 296);
Michigamme (p. 365);
Palmer (p. 427); and
Republic (p. 472).

Trowbridge Park and West Ishpeming are missing. Looking at post offices, the USPS has opened and named post offices for Big Bay, Gwinn, Michigamme, Palmer and Republic. Harvey is acceptable for addresses in the 49855 ZIP Code used for Marquette. K.I. Sawyer AFB had its own post office before the base was closed in 1995, and it used 49843 as distinct from 49841 used for Gwinn. West Ishpeming is not accepted by the USPS for addressing purposes as an alternate for Ishpeming. So on that basis, if Trowbridge Park is really a town, why does Romig omit it and why doesn't the USPS recognize it?

As a local resident, the concept of where Trowbridge Park is located doesn't square with the boundaries assigned by the Census Bureau. (In fact, the Census Bureau doesn't have align their CDP definitions with the local understanding of a community's location.) They use Wright Street (County Road 492), US 41/M-28 and the city–township line as borders. However, the neighborhood of Trowbridge Park (as a subdivision of the township) really encompasses the area east of Vandenboom Avenue (and about 1⁄8 mi. west of Vandenboom) over to the city–township line, and it really doesn't extend all the way to the highway to include the commercial development there. The development around the Westwood Mall north through Venture Drive, Commerce Drive and the townhomes along Cedarville Drive doesn't really fit in the normal boundaries of what locals would call Trowbridge Park. The US Geological Survey quadrangle maps for the area label Trowbridge Park farther east, closer to the city in the residential areas immediately west of the city–township line and label the area near the mall as Brookton Corners.^[2]

In short: Trowbridge Park isn't considered a town, although the Census Bureau has defined boundaries for it for their statistical purposes. Those boundaries don't have to align with the local understanding of the area, and in this case, they don't. Imzadi 1979 → 03:51, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

In a simpler example: there is a subdivision on the plat maps for Negaunee that is called "Beverly Hills". If you search for "Beverly Hills, Negaunee, MI" on Google Maps it will appear with a label. The Census Bureau has not created a CDP for that part of the city, but otherwise it is analogous to Trowbridge Park in Marquette Township. Imzadi 1979 → 04:24, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Romig, Walter (1986). Michigan Place Names: The History of the Founding and the Naming of More than Five Thousand Past and Present Michigan Communities. Detroit: Wayne State University Press. ISBN 978-0-8143-1838-6.
^ United States Geographical Survey (n.d.). "Get Maps". Reston, VA: United States Geological Survey. "Marquette, MI" search": 2011, 2014, and 2017 maps.

Pronunciation

The IPA shown and the "romanized (?)" pronunciation don't match. I always thought the correct pronunciation was what is shown by IPA here, not the other one given. Anybody? YellowAries2010 (talk) 06:37, 20 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

[1] "Presque Isle Harbor Breakwater Light". National Register of Historic Places Program. Retrieved 27 August 2016.

[2] Romig, Walter (1986). Michigan Place Names: The History of the Founding and the Naming of More than Five Thousand Past and Present Michigan Communities. Detroit: Wayne State University Press. ISBN 978-0-8143-1838-6.

[3] United States Geographical Survey (n.d.). "Get Maps". Reston, VA: United States Geological Survey. "Marquette, MI" search": 2011, 2014, and 2017 maps.

[1]

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