Talk:Ramla

Palestine Mid‑importance

	Palestine portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Palestine, a team effort dedicated to building and maintaining comprehensive, informative and balanced articles related to the geographic Palestine region, the Palestinian people and the State of Palestine on Wikipedia. Join us by visiting the project page, where you can add your name to the list of members where you can contribute to the discussions.PalestineWikipedia:WikiProject PalestineTemplate:WikiProject PalestinePalestine-related articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Israel Mid‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Israel, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Israel on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.IsraelWikipedia:WikiProject IsraelTemplate:WikiProject IsraelIsrael-related articles

Mid

This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Project Israel To Do:

Here are some tasks awaiting attention:

Assess : Rate the Unassessed Israel-related articles and Unknown-importance Israel-related articles.
Cleanup : Cleanup listing for this project is available. See also the list by category and the tool's wiki page.
Collaborate : Participate in WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration.
Copyedit : Timeline of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict in 2005
Deletion sorting : Participate in discussions at WikiProject Deletion sorting/Israel.
Expand : Ayala Procaccia, Diamond industry in Israel, Edna Arbel, Levin Kipnis, Rami Kleinstein, Sephardic Haredim, Zman Tel Aviv, Nachum Heiman, Public Defence (Israel), Prisoner of Zion, Trial of Benjamin Netanyahu, Day to Mark the Departure and Expulsion of Jews from the Arab Countries and Iran, Pre-Modern Aliyah
See also Articles needing translation from Hebrew Wikipedia.
Geographical coordinates : Add geographic coordinates to Israel articles missing geocoordinate data.
Infobox : Add infoboxes to Israel articles needing infoboxes.
Maintain : See Israel articles needing attention.
Map : See discussion at Module:Location map/data/Israel. Add maps to articles in Wikipedia requested maps in Israel.
NPOV : Jewish exodus from Arab and Muslim countries
Photo : Add pictures to articles in Wikipedia requested photographs in Israel.
Stubs : See Israel stubs.
Update : Basic Law proposal: Israel as the Nation-State of the Jewish People
Other :
- Translate to Hebrew : David Bar-Hayim, Guy Bavli, and Guy Oseary.

Cities

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Cities, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of cities, towns and various other settlements on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.CitiesWikipedia:WikiProject CitiesTemplate:WikiProject CitiesWikiProject Cities articles

History Low‑importance

	History portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject History, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the subject of History on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.HistoryWikipedia:WikiProject HistoryTemplate:WikiProject Historyhistory articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Warning: active arbitration remedies

The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. This article is related to the Arab–Israeli conflict, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing this article:

You must be logged-in and extended-confirmed to edit or discuss this topic on any page (except for making edit requests, provided they are not disruptive)
You may not make more than 1 revert within 24 hours on any edits related to this topic

Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.

Further information

The exceptions to the extended confirmed restriction are:

Non-extended-confirmed editors may use the "Talk:" namespace only to make edit requests related to articles within the topic area, provided they are not disruptive.
Non-extended-confirmed editors may not create new articles, but administrators may exercise discretion when deciding how to enforce this remedy on article creations. Deletion of new articles created by non-extended-confirmed editors is permitted but not required.

With respect to the WP:1RR restriction:

Clear vandalism of whatever origin may be reverted without restriction. Also, reverts made solely to enforce the extended confirmed restriction are not considered edit warring.
Editors who violate this restriction may be blocked by any uninvolved administrator, even on a first offence.

After being warned, contentious topics procedure can be used against any editor who repeatedly or seriously fails to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process. Contentious topic sanctions can include blocks, topic-bans, or other restrictions.
Editors may report violations of these restrictions to the Arbitration enforcement noticeboard.

If you are unsure if your edit is appropriate, discuss it here on this talk page first. When in doubt, don't revert!

Tip: Anchors are case-sensitive in most browsers.

This article links to one or more target anchors that no longer exist.

[[Ben Yehuda Street bombings#1948|explosion in Ben Yehuda Street]] The anchor (#1948) is no longer available because it was deleted by a user before.

Please help fix the broken anchors. You can remove this template after fixing the problems. | Reporting errors

Jews in 17th century

A number of Jews settled in Ramla in the 17th century with their families. Among them were three noted rabbis from Jerusalem. One of them, Rabbi Moshe ibn Habib, reports on this matter here (סימן קכ"ח סעיף ל"ב) in his book. Another account was given by R' Shmuel Garmazian, who noted that the settlers came from Jerusalem and Damascus and bought houses in the town. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.178.29.84 (talk) 02:58, 30 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Sources for the history section

Sources for the history section: Le Strange (1890) for early history, Cohen and Lewis (1978) for 1548, Ben-Arieh in Ma'oz (1975) for 19th century, British official statistics for population before 1948. The Jewish population: 2 Jews listed in 1852, 35 in 1922, 8 in 1931, none in 1525, 1538, 1548, 1596, 1944. For 1948: B. Morris, Operation Dani and the Palestinian Exodus from Lydda and Ramle in 1948, The Middle East Journal, 40 (1986) 82-109; Rabin memoirs (censored section, NYT Oct 23, 1979).
After 1948: A. Golan, Lydda and Ramle: From Palestinian-Arab to Israeli Towns, 1948-1967, Middle Eastern Studies 39,4 (2003) 121-139. --Zero 10:19, 11 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Oops sorry bout deleting that paragraph, I didn't even realize I did it until you fixed it.- Moshe Constantine Hassan Al-Silverburg (talk) 04:14, 13 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Changes of Hebrew definitions

See discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Judaism#New "twist and turn" as "Hebrew alphabet" is switched to "Hebrew languages" concerning appropriate uses of the word "Hebrew" here. IZAK 05:33, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Morris, 2004, p88

I have removed the following from the article:

Arab militias organized by Hasan Salama and others operated in and around Ramla, resisting Jewish attacks and launching attacks on Jewish settlements and vehicles.< ref>Morris, The Birth of the Palestine Refugee Problem Revisited (Cambridge University Press, 2004), p88.</ ref>

Now, I have checked the reference, and the only thing Morris say about Ramla on p. 88 is (this is in a general discussion about how Salama tried to organise attacs on Jewish forces/quartes, but was almost everywhere met with little success):

"But the villagers were not rushing to join up (..) Salame (..) asked [local leaders east of Jaffa] that they organise attacks on Tel Aviv[..] -"but they all opposed the plan vehemently." He (i.e.Salame) met a similar response from Ramle´s NC. Its members argued that "there was quiet in the area and until the Jews begin operations and Arab villages are attacked, they do not want to begin operations". Lydda NC responded similarely when asked to attack neighbouting Ben Shemen." Morris source this to reports in the Haganah archive.

Now, how can the above from Morris become what was in the article? Regards, Huldra (talk) 23:09, 21 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"accuracy"

This edit is not accurate, it is a whitewash. Morris writes that in Ramle and Lydda the population was 50,000-70,000 and that nearly all of the residents were expelled from both cities. Also, why was the link to 1948 Palestinian exodus from Lydda and Ramla removed? nableezy - 20:37, 13 August 2010 (UTC) Mentionning Napoleon in 1799 in anachronistic.[reply]

What's with the hassle of presenting Ramle as a Palestinian city?

It seems like some wikipedia editors are constantly misrepresenting Ramle as a Palestinian city. Ramle is a perfectly Israeli city, under Israeli rule with Jewish majority (80% Jews, 14% Muslims, 6% Christian who are not all Arab - some belong to the Greek orthodox church). Also, geographically speaking, Ramle isn't even remotely next to the West Bank or Gaza. Additionaly, the residents of Ramle have never named themselves "Palestinians" (other than perhaps the British Mandate definition of any person, Jewish or Arab who lives in Palestine/Israel) nor was it ever under Jordanian/Egyptian rule (Unlike Gaza, the West-Bank or East-Jerusalem).

I know there's a controversey regarding the fact many Arabs fled (or left willingly to allow Jordan/Egypt to conquer it for them) Ramle during the war of 1948 but let's keep things factual. --AvihooI (talk) 12:49, 19 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

earthquakes

The article says that the city was founded in 716 and suffered earthquake damage in 715. Hmmmmmm.... Zero^talk 10:55, 25 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I wondered the same thing. Maybe the area suffered damage? See the Lod Wikipedia article:

"Lod which was referred to as "al-Ludd" in Arabic served as the capital of Jund Filastin ("Military District of Palestine") before the seat of power was moved to nearby Ramla during the reign of the Umayyad Caliph Suleiman ibn Abd al-Malik in 715-716."

Maybe an earthquake led the governing power to move the seat of power at that time? 109.66.36.179 (talk) 20:26, 13 September 2014 (UTC)Eric Mack[reply]

The literary sources for the establishment of Ramle do not ascribe it to an earthquake. In fact, I'm not sure there was an earthquake in 715 at all. There was a major earthquake in Palestine in 746–9 which was reported to have caused severe damage in nearby Lydda. Zero^talk 06:23, 14 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I looked in several extensive lists of earthquakes in Palestine and there is no mention of one in 715. I'm removing it. Zero^talk 07:41, 14 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

What the heck......

Presently the map shows Ramla to be in ......Jordan, LOL! Cheers, Huldra (talk) 20:00, 9 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, I changed "pushpin_map=Israel center ta" to "pushpin_map=" ...and Ramla magically moved from Jordan to israel... I have absolutely *no* idea as to how/why this works....Huldra (talk) 21:25, 9 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The problem was that Sepsis II recently changed the map that Template:Location map Israel center ta uses, but the new map had different boundaries than the old one, causing all points to be misplaced. I've reverted the change and everything seems back to normal now. Jackmcbarn (talk) 22:25, 9 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, I'm still learning maps, sorry. I had asked the map's creator for help fixing the maps problems but he didn't want to help. User talk:Ynhockey#Commons maps. Sepsis II (talk) 23:03, 9 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I think I've fixed it now although it can take hours for the templates to update so if you see other articles using the templates they may still appear wrong for a few hours though they will fix themselves if left alone. Sepsis II (talk) 23:17, 9 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Sepsis II: You have fixed this issue. However, you've now effectively deleted the old Template:Location map Israel center ta and replaced it with a duplicate of Template:Location map Israel. Jackmcbarn (talk) 23:19, 9 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Sepsis: though I certainly have sympathy with your aim of making maps more neutral, please don´t mess around with templates which are used on 100s of pages if you are not sure of what you are doing. I was adviced here to bring these sorts of questions up at WP:VPT; why don´t you try it? Cheers, Huldra (talk) 23:28, 9 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately we have no map similar to the old one that does not have the POV issues the old map had. Like I said, I asked the maps creator for help but as I expected he would not help. I edited the templates rather than the articles to save on a few hundred edits (I do have other things to do) and to make it easier to put back if ever a map creator makes appropriate maps. The POV problems include incorrect colouring of the West Bank and incorrect borders around Jerusalem and Syria. Sepsis II (talk) 23:35, 9 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

That's such a big change that it really needs to be discussed and gain consensus before it's made. Jackmcbarn (talk) 23:46, 9 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with Dlv999 and Sepsis that some of the old maps seem to more reflect the Israeli view, than the view of the rest of the International community. As such, they should be changed. But Sepsis: if you are in doubt about technical issues, please take them to WP:VPT. Cheers, Huldra (talk) 23:54, 9 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@ Jackmcbarn, I'm sorry, what did you say was the problem with the new map?

My mistake was out of ignorance of my ignorance; it's hard to ask for help when you don't know you need it. Sepsis II (talk) 23:59, 9 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Making such a drastic change to a template (effectively making it a new template with the same name) really needs consensus before you do it. In this case, it would be much better to change usages to use the other template, rather than trying to make one act like the other. Jackmcbarn (talk) 00:05, 10 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The result of what you suggest would look the same to the readers as what I did but would take hundreds of more edits for myself and any editor who re-creates the maps without the POV problems. Sepsis II (talk) 00:09, 10 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I've asked the creator of Template:Location map Israel center ta to comment. Jackmcbarn (talk) 00:20, 10 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The old Arab capital (pre Israel formation)

Ramla was the old capital in the land before it was formed into Israel.... Why is this not mentioned - is that not important. Also, the climate is more humid than most areas, so this helps with breathing - one of the reasons it was chosen as the capital by the arabs. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.7.89.71 (talk) 08:13, 2 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

This is not true except in the pre-Crusader period, which is already mentioned. Zero^talk 08:44, 2 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to one external link on Ramla. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

Added archive https://web.archive.org/20080309152526/http://www.ithl.org.il:80/author_info.asp?id=277 to http://www.ithl.org.il/author_info.asp?id=277

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers. —^{cyberbot II}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 07:21, 18 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 4 external links on Ramla. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 03:26, 20 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

per Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Palestine-Israel articles

5) Editors who find it difficult to edit a particular article or topic from a neutral point of view and adhere to other Wikipedia policies are counseled that they may sometimes need or wish to step away temporarily from that article or subject area. Sometimes, editors in this position may wish devote some of their knowledge, interest, and effort to creating or editing other articles that may relate to the same broad subject-matter as the dispute, but are less immediately contentious. For example, an editor whose ethnicity, cultural heritage, or personal interests relate to Side X and who finds himself caught up in edit-warring on an article about a recent war between Side X and Side Y, may wish to disengage from that article for a time and instead focus on a different aspect of the history, civilization, and cultural heritage of Side X. -- Dlohcierekim (talk) 23:04, 13 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 4 external links on Ramla. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 22:45, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 31 July 2018

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

I propose adding the following sentence to the end of the demographics section:

The city serves as the point of registration for many citizens in the nearby, unrecognized village of Dahmash.^[1]

Matthew V. Milone (talk) 18:12, 31 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit extended-protected}} template. There's no consensus on the Reliable Sources Noticeboard regarding whether Human Rights Watch is a suitable source for topics related to the Israeli–Palestinian conflict. Please start a new discussion on this talk page, and establish a consensus with other interested editors before making an edit request. — Newslinger talk 21:08, 3 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ "Israel: Grant Status Long Denied to Arab Village in Central Israel". Human Rights Watch. Retrieved 31 July 2018.

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 4 August 2018

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Change "Coat of arms of Ramla.png" to "Coat_of_Arms_of_Ramla.svg" as I upload a new accurate version. Tal (Ronaldinho The king) 14:53, 4 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Done Danski454 (talk) 15:35, 4 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. Tal (Ronaldinho The king) 15:37, 4 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Please add to notable people

Avishag Semberg (born 2001), taekwondo Olympic bronze medalist

--184.153.21.19 (talk) 07:48, 25 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 13 January 2022

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Please change "explusion" to "expulsion", in quotation from "Golani and Manna 2011, p. 107". The source does not have this spelling error.--Seggallion (talk) 06:57, 13 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

References

Done ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 11:43, 13 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Changing "Ramla" to "Ramle"

I can attest that the introduction to the article is wrong when giving the pronunciation in Hebrew and Arabic as "Ramla"; both Hebrew-speaking and Arabic-speaking residents of Ramla pronounce it Ramle. Anyone else who is a local and can attest this? Thank you. Dan Palraz (talk) 12:04, 3 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Today, in Israeli newspaper Haaretz: [to Merge Unrecognized Arab Village With City of Ramle, Despite Residents Opposition]. As Ramle is the way used by both the Jewish Israeli and the Arab citizens of the city, I think it would make sense to change Ramla into Ramle, unless there is another reason to oppose it. Dan Palraz (talk) 11:08, 12 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The Israeli government indeed uses Ramle, which is the way every Israeli I know pronounces it: https://whc.unesco.org/en/tentativelists/1482/ Dan Palraz (talk) 22:18, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The official spelling is Ramla (https://www.nevo.co.il/Law_word/law10/yalkut-0277.pdf). Red Slapper (talk) 21:54, 25 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This is not a list of "official spellings" - even if it was, it uses "Ascalon" for Ashkelon, "Beth Shemesh" for Beit Shemesh, "Beit Jibrin" from Beit Guvrin, etc. The spelling officially used by the city itself is Ramle: https://ramle.org.il/ (and also by the Israeli government: https://whc.unesco.org/en/tentativelists/1482/) As it is the locally used form, used by both Jewish and Arab residents of the city, is there any reason for us not to adopt it here? Dan Palraz (talk) 11:11, 4 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It sounds to me as if the Ramla is the formal Arabic way of saying it and Ramle in the Palestinian dialect. While although it is informally referred to as Ramle, we should stick to what most sources use and that is Ramla, per WP:Common names. Makeandtoss (talk) 12:28, 4 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Please add ..

Under Notable People ..

Avishag Semberg (born 2001), Olympic taekwondo bronze medalist

2603:7000:2101:AA00:8425:771F:1857:346C (talk) 04:00, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[hrw-1] "Israel: Grant Status Long Denied to Arab Village in Central Israel". Human Rights Watch. Retrieved 31 July 2018.

[1]